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Just now, Maverick said:

Thinking the weapons on this team are anything other than average is wild. But we couldn't possibly fault Gute for that. 

Then you agree with me, ya dummy.

I called out someone for calling them "a criminal offense". If he said "average" it would not have required a response.

Words have meanings, yes?

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1 minute ago, incognito_man said:

Then you agree with me, ya dummy.

I called out someone for calling them "a criminal offense". If he said "average" it would not have required a response.

Words have meanings, yes?

I blame the roster construction on the GM. Not the QB. So no, we don't agree here. 

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What does Detroit have personnel wise that we don't? Amon-Ra is a nice player from a production standpoint, but he doesn't have any elite trait. Hock has had 1 elite game an a bunch of middling ones. Are Swift and Jamaal any better than Jonesy and Dillon? Not really. 

What about Baltimore? Elite TE with WRs far worse than our group. RBs have been a trainwreck.

Offenses are making it work without elite skills. The fact ours isn't needs to be directed moreso at our HC, QB and OL IMO. I would love to add a skill guy at the deadline, but I have absolutely no gripe with Gute for thinking this duo would not be hurt by the skill group he provided. Says way more about them that they are.

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2 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Some people are hopeless

That we can agree on

I don't think Gute has put together a very talented offense. Granted, the implosion of the OL isn't his fault. But the best offensive players on this team are TT guys. That's a problem. 

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1 minute ago, Maverick said:

That we can agree on

I don't think Gute has put together a very talented offense. Granted, the implosion of the OL isn't his fault. But the best offensive players on this team are TT guys. That's a problem. 

Elite players lasting a long time on your team is a problem? That's a really weird take to have.

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1 minute ago, Packerraymond said:

Elite players lasting a long time on your team is a problem? That's a really weird take to have.

These TT guys are now OLD and semi-washed. So yes, that is a bit of a problem. 

I do agree with your earlier post. We should be doing more with what we have. 

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Just now, Maverick said:

These TT guys are now OLD and semi-washed. So yes, that is a bit of a problem. 

I do agree with your earlier post. We should be doing more with what we have. 

I wouldn't consider any of Jones, Rodgers or Bahk washed yet based on this year. Would take a hell of a player to top a back to back MVP, 3 time All Pro LT or one of the best RBs all time in YPC. This isn't a negative point on Gute to me. Especially when the defense has only Clark left from the Ted era, and the elite player like Gary and Alexander are from him.

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28 minutes ago, Brit Pack said:

Forget the stats for a second, as I think some of them have very little value and I'm not going to start that debate of unpacking the relevance and predicatability of outcome from them, that's just a dark rabbit hole. 

Within a game from drive to drive you can watch and see he'll play patient and then he tries to press and it doesn't work. This is not just a 'this year thing', this is 'a Rodgers thing.' He overall struggles with in game adversity however, the times he does deal with it is purely magical and highly memorable. 

The thing that needs fixing is him finding his momentum, not a new WR or a new oline player, they are the cherries on top. For this offence to work MLF and him have to find how to get rhythm depsite of short comings, ultimately that's what every team has to do.

Rhythm can be obtained from less pressure, not having to unload so quickly and open receivers. So no way to move away from the stats / facts.

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14 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

I wouldn't consider any of Jones, Rodgers or Bahk washed yet based on this year. Would take a hell of a player to top a back to back MVP, 3 time All Pro LT or one of the best RBs all time in YPC. This isn't a negative point on Gute to me. Especially when the defense has only Clark left from the Ted era, and the elite player like Gary and Alexander are from him.

So....let me ask you this.

You are now the GM over the past how ever many drafts Gute has run.

You have Rodgers under center.  Jones in the backfield.  All Pro LT.  High end center.  And All Pro WR.

What exactly are you supposed to draft in round one??

I mean, if TT hit on those guys, obviously you need to draft other positions, right?  

Gute did get Jenkins for the OL.  Found Runyan.  Drafted Myers to replace Lindsley.

About the only thing I want to criticize Gute for is not finding Wr's earlier.  He committed to it this year, but it seemed to me like it was more of an afterthought in prior years.  Forget hindsight, I wish he would have packaged picks and moved up for some WR's in the past.  But that is about my only criticism.

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16 minutes ago, cannondale said:

Rhythm can be obtained from less pressure, not having to unload so quickly and open receivers. So no way to move away from the stats / facts.

You are infereing a lot from that one stat. Allen is just a hair behind at 2.3 and he has an Oline ranked 22 by PFF, he ain't got no issues with rhythm and unloading (no intended double entendre)!!!

Jordan Love is pulling it out at 1.8 sec... So Rodgers could be faster

Pat Mahomes, Justin Herbet, Kyler all seeing more hurries, but they are all in top 5 yards passing. 

I get it Rodgers doesn't have the weapons any of those guys do but his level of production is sigficantly lower. I mean Wentz has got more yards than Rodgers!

The point goes back to when you watch a game, regardless of what the oline is doing or the WRs are doing I come away going Rodgers WTF!!!! If only you did x,y or z. I'm not that demanding that I'm expecting hero play ever play or dink or dunk every play, but too many times there is a play and I'm screaming why didn't you just throw it there, he was open, or there was an easier way. 

Teams are built on building chemistry and flow. This team doesn't have it and it's not about a lack of talent.

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2 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

What does Detroit have personnel wise that we don't? Amon-Ra is a nice player from a production standpoint, but he doesn't have any elite trait. Hock has had 1 elite game an a bunch of middling ones. Are Swift and Jamaal any better than Jonesy and Dillon? Not really. 

What about Baltimore? Elite TE with WRs far worse than our group. RBs have been a trainwreck.

Offenses are making it work without elite skills. The fact ours isn't needs to be directed moreso at our HC, QB and OL IMO. I would love to add a skill guy at the deadline, but I have absolutely no gripe with Gute for thinking this duo would not be hurt by the skill group he provided. Says way more about them that they are.

Are you serious? The pass catching skill group provided is the worst in the entire league. Hok is a much better version of tonyan and Andrews is the best te in the league. To act like we are the same after that is hilarious. Both teams have better wrs than we do as well.  We may have them beat at RB but that's the easiest position to replace and irrelevant when your line is getting abused

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1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

So....let me ask you this.

You are now the GM over the past how ever many drafts Gute has run.

You have Rodgers under center.  Jones in the backfield.  All Pro LT.  High end center.  And All Pro WR.

What exactly are you supposed to draft in round one??

I mean, if TT hit on those guys, obviously you need to draft other positions, right?  

Gute did get Jenkins for the OL.  Found Runyan.  Drafted Myers to replace Lindsley.

About the only thing I want to criticize Gute for is not finding Wr's earlier.  He committed to it this year, but it seemed to me like it was more of an afterthought in prior years.  Forget hindsight, I wish he would have packaged picks and moved up for some WR's in the past.  But that is about my only criticism.

The problem is we are playing Jenkins out of position negating his positive effect.   Runyon and Myers are playing very poor football.

Gute has failed to adequately backfill the offensive talent on the roster to maintain excellence.   The OL is poor, the WR room is barren.  

This could be understandable if we were playing good defense, but a strong draft focus on defense for the last several years still leads to a defense that cannot get off the field or play good football.

Gute has and is failing this franchise.  His drafting has been below average.   The depth just keeps getting worse.  You can talk about the couple of good picks and feel good about those players, but football is a team game.  People get hurt and you need some roster depth.  We dont have much in too many positions.

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2 hours ago, Maverick said:

That we can agree on

I don't think Gute has put together a very talented offense. Granted, the implosion of the OL isn't his fault. But the best offensive players on this team are TT guys. That's a problem. 

I agree with you if you are blaming Gute for terrible value at the QB position which is hamstringing our offense. He thought he could get MVP play out of Rodgers for awhile longer so that he could mask the necessary other weaknesses on offense when spending that much on Rodgers. But, yes, Gute appears to have made a mistake spending money on Rodgers instead of elsewhere on the team.

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