packfanfb Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 3 hours ago, Packerraymond said: What does Detroit have personnel wise that we don't? Amon-Ra is a nice player from a production standpoint, but he doesn't have any elite trait. Hock has had 1 elite game an a bunch of middling ones. Are Swift and Jamaal any better than Jonesy and Dillon? Not really. What about Baltimore? Elite TE with WRs far worse than our group. RBs have been a trainwreck. Offenses are making it work without elite skills. The fact ours isn't needs to be directed moreso at our HC, QB and OL IMO. I would love to add a skill guy at the deadline, but I have absolutely no gripe with Gute for thinking this duo would not be hurt by the skill group he provided. Says way more about them that they are. Why are we talking about Detroit who hasn't won a playoff game in 60 years or even Baltimore? Use an example closer to home. The Rams don't win the SB last year without acquiring Beckham. Anyone who tries to dispute that doesn't watch football beyond the Packers. We've been the Rams for the last 2-3 years and just failed to make that move. This year such a move may not even be enough, but it definitely can't hurt. Or we can just stick with status quo because reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 17 minutes ago, packfanfb said: Why are we talking about Detroit who hasn't won a playoff game in 60 years or even Baltimore? Use an example closer to home. The Rams don't win the SB last year without acquiring Beckham. Anyone who tries to dispute that doesn't watch football beyond the Packers. We've been the Rams for the last 2-3 years and just failed to make that move. This year such a move may not even be enough, but it definitely can't hurt. Or we can just stick with status quo because reasons. I'm looking at top scoring offenses this year. Last year is history, who cares? I'm not even sure what point of mine you're arguing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 1 hour ago, hitnhope said: The problem is we are playing Jenkins out of position negating his positive effect. Runyon and Myers are playing very poor football. Gute has failed to adequately backfill the offensive talent on the roster to maintain excellence. The OL is poor, the WR room is barren. This could be understandable if we were playing good defense, but a strong draft focus on defense for the last several years still leads to a defense that cannot get off the field or play good football. Gute has and is failing this franchise. His drafting has been below average. The depth just keeps getting worse. You can talk about the couple of good picks and feel good about those players, but football is a team game. People get hurt and you need some roster depth. We dont have much in too many positions. Lot to unpack there. No, we are not playing Jenkins out of position. He's coming back from injury. He played tackle last year. And was good at it. He has the skills. Our guards are not getting it done. Yes. Gute did not fail to backfill the offensive talent. It's the same talent as last year year, only with some young blood on the OL. And no Adams, but again with young blood at WR. I don't know how the guy has failed at drafting when he's given us JA and Gary. Arguably two of the best young players at their position. Throw in Jenkins, right? He picked Campbell and Douglas off of the scrap heap, right? Dillon is a good pick. I think you overestimate the depth that other teams have compared to ours. Things have failed this year, no doubt. I'm not quite sure that I'll put the blame onto Gute right now. It looks more like a scheme and effort problem. Except for WR. Yah, I for sure feel like he failed the WR room. He didn't invest enough into that room soon enough. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitnhope Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 I just dont agree. gute made a couple really good picks in Jaire, Jenkins, and Gary. He has not made nearly enough solid picks in players that fill out a roster successfully. Give you the benefit of the doubt on Jenkins. That still leaves 3 positions on the OL that aren't playing good enough to have winning football. He has missed on far too many players who contribute nothing while having too many top picks not amount to much. Examples of the latter are Savage, Deguara, and Myers. premium picks that are playing below average to bad football. On an earlier thread read arguing about Blake Martinez. Argued he was just a guy. We really could have used a few more similar players on this roster instead of those who contribute nothing. The OL play last year wasn't good enough and has been much worse thus far this year. Standing pat wasn't good enough. Especially when you put the WR position in the state it currently is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Pack Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 Lads!!! Talk of roster failings and draft successes/busts are not for now, store it and bring it out later, it will keep us engaged after FA and the draft and before TC. Let's keep the discussion on how Rodgers has a big stick but doesn't know to use it to get a good tune out!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Striker Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, hitnhope said: I just dont agree. gute made a couple really good picks in Jaire, Jenkins, and Gary. He has not made nearly enough solid picks in players that fill out a roster successfully. Give you the benefit of the doubt on Jenkins. That still leaves 3 positions on the OL that aren't playing good enough to have winning football. He has missed on far too many players who contribute nothing while having too many top picks not amount to much. Examples of the latter are Savage, Deguara, and Myers. premium picks that are playing below average to bad football. On an earlier thread read arguing about Blake Martinez. Argued he was just a guy. We really could have used a few more similar players on this roster instead of those who contribute nothing. The OL play last year wasn't good enough and has been much worse thus far this year. Standing pat wasn't good enough. Especially when you put the WR position in the state it currently is. I think you really overestimate how many hits you need per roster/draft class. -2018: Alexander was a smash hit. MVS and ESB contribute in their roles, didn't get second contracts here, and went elsewhere. JK Scott flopped here but is managing with LA. Oren Burks is contributing on the 49ers STs. -2019: Three starters, two of them Pro Bowl to All Pro caliber really shouldn't warrant further discussion. And I'm especially not going to ding Jenkins for having his worst year as a pro less than a year after a torn ACL. -2020: One solid player (Dillon), three other who contribute, plus Love (still an unknown) and Garvin. -2021: Too early to tell -2022: Also too early to tell PLUS: -2018: Marcedes Lewis -2019: Amos, the Smiths, Turner -2020: None of those FAs stuck -2021: Campbell, Douglas -2022: O'Donnell, Reed, Watkins He's been filling holes via both FA and drafting. The only thing he hasn't done is swing a big trade. Things will look a lot better on O if ANY of the guards step up and if Jenkins gets healthier. Things will look better on D if the DC gets his head out of his ***. Edited October 21, 2022 by Striker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatKing Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Striker said: I think you really overestimate how many hits you need per roster/draft class. -2018: Alexander was a smash hit. MVS and ESB contribute in their roles, didn't get second contracts here, and went elsewhere. JK Scott flopped here but is managing with LA. Oren Burks is contributing on the 49ers STs. -2019: Three starters, two of them Pro Bowl to All Pro caliber really shouldn't warrant further discussion. And I'm especially not going to ding Jenkins for having his worst year as a pro less than a year after a torn ACL. -2020: One solid player (Dillon), three other who contribute, plus Love (still an unknown) and Garvin. -2021: Too early to tell -2022: Also too early to tell PLUS: -2018: Marcedes Lewis -2019: Amos, the Smiths, Turner -2020: None of those FAs stuck -2021: Campbell, Douglas -2022: O'Donnell, Reed, Watkins He's been filling holes via both FA and drafting. The only thing he hasn't done is swing a big trade. Things will look a lot better on O if ANY of the guards step up and if Jenkins gets healthier. Things will look better on D if the DC gets his head out of his ***. Kind of nitpicking here but I don't know how you can say the 2020 class is anything other than awful. When the best pick of the class is a 2nd round backup RB that isn't a good sign. Love isn't going to play for any extended period of time here, Deguara is a flat out bust, and Runyan is a replacement level player at best. The rest of the class isn't even worth mentioning. Pretty sure its safe to say that was probably Gutes weakest draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, hitnhope said: The problem is we are playing Jenkins out of position negating his positive effect. Runyon and Myers are playing very poor football. Gute has failed to adequately backfill the offensive talent on the roster to maintain excellence. The OL is poor, the WR room is barren. This could be understandable if we were playing good defense, but a strong draft focus on defense for the last several years still leads to a defense that cannot get off the field or play good football. Gute has and is failing this franchise. His drafting has been below average. The depth just keeps getting worse. You can talk about the couple of good picks and feel good about those players, but football is a team game. People get hurt and you need some roster depth. We dont have much in too many positions. I blame MLF for the o-line. We all know what's going to happen when the line is Bakh - Jenkins - Myers - Runyan - Nijman. Rodgers will have time to throw, and as Bakh and Tonyan get their legs under them, and Jones and Dillon have more space to run, and as playmakers start to emerge from the WR group, the offense will be able to string together enough drives to start winning. I'd love to add a legitimate starting WR to go opposite Lazard, but if we only trade for one outside player I'd want it to be a good rushing edge. I felt Mercilus put us over the top last year as a small move that paid big dividends. Acquiring a similar talent at edge, while putting Sul back outside and allowing more man-to-man on defense, could lock this unit down so they start playing more consistently. Edited October 22, 2022 by Sandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Striker Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 1 hour ago, StatKing said: Kind of nitpicking here but I don't know how you can say the 2020 class is anything other than awful. When the best pick of the class is a 2nd round backup RB that isn't a good sign. Love isn't going to play for any extended period of time here, Deguara is a flat out bust, and Runyan is a replacement level player at best. The rest of the class isn't even worth mentioning. Pretty sure its safe to say that was probably Gutes weakest draft. 2020 is easily the weakest, but if they can get anything meaningful from the six on the roster (Hanson being the most likely outside of Love) it will mean the draft is at least salvageable. Not great, but that's also how drafts will go sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatKing Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 14 minutes ago, Striker said: 2020 is easily the weakest, but if they can get anything meaningful from the six on the roster (Hanson being the most likely outside of Love) it will mean the draft is at least salvageable. Not great, but that's also how drafts will go sometimes. I wouldn't consider it salvageable just because they made the roster and played a couple snaps. If we had a front office that actually ran like it was in the 21st century instead of being stuck in 1996 guys like Deguara would no longer be on the roster but since we are the Packers and embody the meme that is "draft and develop" we keep guys around who clearly cant play at a high level for 2 years too long. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 6 hours ago, StatKing said: I wouldn't consider it salvageable just because they made the roster and played a couple snaps. If we had a front office that actually ran like it was in the 21st century instead of being stuck in 1996 guys like Deguara would no longer be on the roster but since we are the Packers and embody the meme that is "draft and develop" we keep guys around who clearly cant play at a high level for 2 years too long. There is exactly 1 3rd round pick from the 2020 no longer in the NFL. 98% of 3rd rounders are still in the league. Only 37 picks from the 2020 Draft are no longer in the NFL. 86% of the draft class is still in the league. Please Shut the **** Up 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatKing Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 16 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: There is exactly 1 3rd round pick from the 2020 no longer in the NFL. 98% of 3rd rounders are still in the league. Only 37 picks from the 2020 Draft are no longer in the NFL. 86% of the draft class is still in the league. Please Shut the **** Up Oh did I offend your precious Packers management by saying Deguara is a bust? I could care less about the rest of the third round picks in 2020. Can he play yes or no? In 3 years the guy has less than 400 yards of production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatKing Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 CeeDee Lamb, Justin Jefferson, Tee Higgins, Brandon Aiyuk, and De'Andre Swift are just a handful of names that have either equaled or outproduced our ENTIRE 2020 draft class. 2020 was by far Gutes weakest draft and it isn't even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighCalebR Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 (edited) Could be worse. Couldve taken Gladney 🤷♂️ What a trash *** take when you can easily look at a quantifiable, straight apples to apples comp and see Swift is on par with Dillon. And thats without the unquantifiable stat of JLove made Aaron back to back MVPs. Look at the players selected around our pick. Just like every year, lots of dudes who arent doing much, at least yet. But yeah, rail on the pick the FO was figuring would keep the Packers in a healthy situation if late 30s Rodgers decided to pack it up Edited October 22, 2022 by HighCalebR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 7 minutes ago, HighCalebR said: Could be worse. Couldve taken Gladney 🤷♂️ What a trash *** take when you can easily look at a quantifiable, straight apples to apples comp and see Swift is on par with Dillon. And thats without the unquantifiable stat of JLove made Aaron back to back MVPs. Aiyuk is dogwater too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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