2022-2023 NBA GDT: The regular season is finally over!

[Spartica4Real]

36 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Jordan led the league in total points scored every season he was with the Bulls with the only exceptions being his second year (got hurt) and the year he came back late after he retired (17 games). He should've had won the scoring title in 11/11 healthy seasons in Chicago but Bird/King had higher PPG due to missing games. Do you know how unreal it is to go for over a decade straight scoring more points than any player in the league? If he wouldn't have essentially missed three seasons he'd have the volume numbers over LeBron as well. 

You also failed to mention that defense is important as well, Jordan was 1st team All-Defense in 9/11 healthy seasons. So he was the best scorer in the league and also one of the 5 best defensive players in the league his entire career.

MJ also never had to switch teams to chase rings with other elite players either. 

Jordan's resume stumps LeBron in almost every category other than longevity. 

My brother in christ I didn't fail to mention Jordan's defense at all, I said you talking about his accolades, including DPOY, was a fair argument. I only brought up passing as something you didn't mention when asking what LeBron was supposed to be better at. And I'm not even trying to argue LeBron is GOAT 😭

[Trey Lance]

43 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

MJ also never had to switch teams to chase rings with other elite players either. 

 

I'm not arguing one over the other because comparing eras is already hard enough but the teams Lebron beat with no help is something MJ can never say he has done. What is MJs playoffs record without Scottie? Can MJ leads those 07 Cavs over the Pistons? I just can't blame Lebron or any player for wanting to leave a team because the team around is doing nothing to help/falling apart.

 

Also Cam Thomas >> Both anyway

Edited February 8, 2023 by Trey Lance

[NYRaider]

23 minutes ago, Trey Lance said:

Also Cam Thomas >> Both anyway

At his current trajectory he very well may be the GOAT.

[NYRaider]

Gotta love LeBron's confidence after losing to the Thunder. 

 

 

[seminoles1]

6 hours ago, Bullet Club said:

That's the thing. If you're under 39 (like me) this may be the only scoring leader change in our lifetime.

Not just scoring leader. This will probably be the last career leader we ever see for the 5 main statistical categories.

No one is touching rebounds, assist, blocks, or steals. Points is still the only realistic one that can be topped, but it'd take so much injury luck and longevity that you have to assume it won't be done.

[seminoles1]

6 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Do you value individual scoring numbers over championships, MVPs, Finals MVPs, and DPOYs?

I mean, it's not just scoring. He literally just moved into 4th all-time for assists. He's ahead of MJ in everything except steals.

Efficiency goes for both. Some prefer MJ, some prefer LeBron.

This all comes down to how people argue this. If you simply look on paper, MJ probably wins. If you only looks at numbers, LeBron probably wins. But both have their wins and losses in those 2 arguments. There's context and ridiculousness to everything though. There are years both MJ and LeBron were voted All-Defense and finished top 5 in DPOY voting when they had absolutely no reason to be. There are years MJ didn't win MVP where he was better than the years he did win MVP, and same for LeBron. LeBron was better in years when he didn't win MVP than MJ was when he did win MVP, and vice versa.

If you've watched them both, you're splitting hairs trying to say who was better at their peak. And they both had multiple peaks with different kinds of skills and dominance! They were legitimately the best players in the league as totally different types of offensive players, in how they operated and where they preferred to set up on the floor. I can't think of any other players like that.

There's one thing that holds LeBron up for me, and it's the 2011 Finals. But here's the thing about that Finals: I don't think LeBron takes that next step into truly transcendent player without the failure of that series. So it's almost like a catch-22.

IMO, at their absolute best (MJ first 3-peat, LeBron last 3 years in Miami), MJ has a tiny advantage for me. But I can't even really articulate why because LeBron was also so freaking good. I wish this discussion didn't always get so heated. The only thing I'll get heated about anymore is someone arguing any other perimeter player over these 2.

[seminoles1]

9 hours ago, NYRaider said:

They honestly should just write this season off as a loss, maintain as much cap flexibility as they can for this summer, and keep their FRPs. There isn't a trade that they can make that elevates them enough to actually contend this year.

I don't think they should. Free agency is a crap shoot. Can they trust they'd sign a better player than Clarkson as a bench scorer and someone to take some pressure off LeBron?

If they can good solid players in their primes, they should do it. Don't waste another great LeBron/AD year. They shouldn't overpay, but 2 picks for 4 legit rotation pieces that fit perfectly with LeBron and AD is a very good move.

[Mox]

2 hours ago, seminoles1 said:

Not just scoring leader. This will probably be the last career leader we ever see for the 5 main statistical categories.

No one is touching rebounds, assist, blocks, or steals. Points is still the only realistic one that can be topped, but it'd take so much injury luck and longevity that you have to assume it won't be done.

Didn't even think of that. LeBron is the closest active player to the top in rebounds and isn't even halfway to the record. Chris Paul is closest in assists and would need 6 more years of 10/game playing 80 games/year. 

[Kip Smithers]

It’s crazy though, Lebron hasn’t won an MVP since 2013 which is 10 years ago and to be honest it’s not like in that span he has a great argument for one.

On another note completely, I cannot for the life of me understand the amount of people I am seeing flat out be so against a KD trade to the Celtics and losing Jaylen Brown. And I know we’d want more than just Brown but my goodness. I’m convinced that it was a straight up 1-for-1 Celtics fans would still say no lmao. 

[Mox]

13 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

It’s crazy though, Lebron hasn’t won an MVP since 2013 which is 10 years ago and to be honest it’s not like in that span he has a great argument for one.

On another note completely, I cannot for the life of me understand the amount of people I am seeing flat out be so against a KD trade to the Celtics and losing Jaylen Brown. And I know we’d want more than just Brown but my goodness. I’m convinced that it was a straight up 1-for-1 Celtics fans would still say no lmao. 

LeBron started chilling in the regular season in 2014. I agree that he has no case for being MVP in any season since then. But he's still been the league's best player a majority of those years.

Probably because it shortens their title window, and you aren't guaranteed a title because of his durability issues. People forget because of Kyrie and Ben but Durant has missed 72, 37, 27, and 15 games (out of only 54, while still injured) the last four years.

[OkeyDoke21]

20 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

It’s crazy though, Lebron hasn’t won an MVP since 2013 which is 10 years ago and to be honest it’s not like in that span he has a great argument for one.

On another note completely, I cannot for the life of me understand the amount of people I am seeing flat out be so against a KD trade to the Celtics and losing Jaylen Brown. And I know we’d want more than just Brown but my goodness. I’m convinced that it was a straight up 1-for-1 Celtics fans would still say no lmao. 

I don't think Boston fans are crazy for not wanting that deal 1-for-1.  I would probably do it, but it's not like there aren't questions of age, durability, fit with Tatum, personality in the lockerroom/city that would sway you one way or the other.  It's not some no brainer.  

[CWood21]

44 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

On another note completely, I cannot for the life of me understand the amount of people I am seeing flat out be so against a KD trade to the Celtics and losing Jaylen Brown. And I know we’d want more than just Brown but my goodness. I’m convinced that it was a straight up 1-for-1 Celtics fans would still say no lmao. 

Feels like more of an offseason deal, and if that's assuming Boston falls short again.

[Sllim Pickens]

7 hours ago, Trey Lance said:

I'm not arguing one over the other because comparing eras is already hard enough but the teams Lebron beat with no help is something MJ can never say he has done. What is MJs playoffs record without Scottie? Can MJ leads those 07 Cavs over the Pistons? I just can't blame Lebron or any player for wanting to leave a team because the team around is doing nothing to help/falling apart.

Agreed.  The free agency/player movement to build super teams really started in the mid 90s really with Shaq leaving for LA to play with Kobe.  That being said, MJ always had great players around him and an all time great coach.  Having one of the best all around players ever with Pippen (and not making it past the first round without him), some of the best 3point shooters of all time percentage wise in Hodges and Kerr, and other all stars in Grant and Kukoc and then bringing in one of the best defenders and rebounders ever in Rodman is the same thing to me as leaving to go play with better players.  Not to mention Jordan never had to play against super teams himself.  

Lebron taking that Cavs team to the finals in his first stint is still some of the most miraculous stuff ever.  Not a single player on that team with an all star appearance in their careers on that team besides him (or even close to one really) and willing his way to a finals is nuts.  No other team/player in history has done that.  As soon as he leaves they are the worst team in the NBA, when MJ leaves his team is one game from the ECF.  Says a lot about the supporting casts.  

MJ and Lebron are definitely the two best players ever, and its splitting hairs to argue who is better and likely has to do with your era or fandom more than the players themselves.  

Lebron is top 5 in PPG, top 4 in career assists, will finish top 30 in rebounds, likely top 7 in steals, will be top 7 in 3 pointers made, has a better FG% and 3p% than MJ, has the most clutch time points ever, second most game tying or winning shots in the final minute of a 4thQ/OT, and the most buzzer beaters in playoff history.  MJ is the leading scorer in PPG but not the longevity, has more rings and more defensive accolades (although Lebron is the more versatile defender IMO).  Both are amazing.  Both have their perks and negatives but both have transformed the game in their own ways.  

[Sllim Pickens]

35 minutes ago, OkeyDoke21 said:

I don't think Boston fans are crazy for not wanting that deal 1-for-1.  I would probably do it, but it's not like there aren't questions of age, durability, fit with Tatum, personality in the lockerroom/city that would sway you one way or the other.  It's not some no brainer.  

Agreed.  Given Tatum and Durant are similar players, I dont want to get in Tatums way as he is moving into that elite category. Brown is a better perimeter defender than Durant and is significantly younger.  Also he is making 18M less per year allowing them to keep Marcus Smart.  And the locker room things is big too.  The Celtics have grown together and are atop the East after a finals run last year.  Why shake up chemistry for what potentially isn't an upgrade to the team as a whole.  

[bigbadbuff]

LeBron would’ve 8 peated with those Bills teams because he wouldn’t have quit to play another sport