redsoxsuck05 Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) Oh and Harden averaged 34 in his age 30 season. We need a player as selfish and stat-obsessed as Houston Harden straight out of HS. Like a good Jimmer Fredette. Oh wait, how can we forget Cameron Thomas???? Edited February 8, 2023 by redsoxsuck05 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 1 minute ago, Spartica4Real said: I've never been one for GOAT debates, mostly because by the time I was born MJ's career was winding down (I'm 25 this year) and I'm not gonna try to debate for or against a guy that I only saw highlights and documentaries of being GOAT or not. LeBron is and probably will for a long time (if not forever) be the unquestionable greatest of the 21st century though. I think the argument for GOAT will never be settled and depends on how much you value the peak of MJ vs the longevity of LeBron. Both are valid arguments. Jordan was probably the better player, LeBron has had a better career. That's where I'm at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 1 minute ago, Spartica4Real said: I've never been one for GOAT debates, mostly because by the time I was born MJ's career was winding down (I'm 25 this year) and I'm not gonna try to debate for or against a guy that I only saw highlights and documentaries of being GOAT or not. LeBron is and probably will for a long time (if not forever) be the unquestionable greatest of the 21st century though. I think the argument for GOAT will never be settled and depends on how much you value the peak of MJ vs the longevity of LeBron. Both are valid arguments. Other than total career points scored, what else does LeBron have on MJ? MJ has more championships, MVPs, Finals MVPs, scoring titles, a DPOY, and made almost twice as many All-Defensive teams despite playing less than LeBron. LeBron is the all time scoring leader but only has one scoring title, MJ did it 10 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 3 minutes ago, Bullet Club said: Jordan was probably the better player, LeBron has had a better career. That's where I'm at. I'm not sure how less championships, MVPs, and Finals MVPs equates to a better career. Unless scoring is the only factor that determines how good a player was and in that case Karl Malone should be in the GOAT conversation as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 5 minutes ago, redsoxsuck05 said: Oh and Harden averaged 34 in his age 30 season. We need a player as selfish and stat-obsessed as Houston Harden straight out of HS. Like a good Jimmer Fredette. Oh wait, how can we forget Cameron Thomas???? Paolo Banchero 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsoxsuck05 Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: I'm not sure how less championships, MVPs, and Finals MVPs equates to a better career. Unless scoring is the only factor that determines how good a player was and in that case Karl Malone should be in the GOAT conversation as well. Assists tho. Malone was the GOAT pedo at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 Just now, NYRaider said: I'm not sure how less championships, MVPs, and Finals MVPs equates to a better career. Unless scoring is the only factor that determines how good a player was and in that case Karl Malone should be in the GOAT conversation as well. Because the 90's are objectively a worse era of basketball, and LeBron being a 9.9 compared to Jordan's 10 for way longer matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsoxsuck05 Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: Paolo Banchero RJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsoxsuck05 Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Bullet Club said: Because the 90's are objectively a worse era of basketball, and LeBron being a 9.9 compared to Jordan's 10 for way longer matters. Is there any doubt that MJ would have been MJ for longer had he not retired the first time and spent more time taking care of his body and less time gambling like a boomer? He also would've aged better in the Wizards years had he been 3-Pilled earlier in his career. Edited February 8, 2023 by redsoxsuck05 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 Just now, redsoxsuck05 said: Is there any doubt that MJ would have been MJ for longer had he not retired the first time and spent more time taking care of his body and less time gambling like a boomer? Whose fault is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Bullet Club said: Because the 90's are objectively a worse era of basketball, and LeBron being a 9.9 compared to Jordan's 10 for way longer matters. Jordan is the NBA's all time leader in PPG for the regular season and the playoffs though. You also have to account for the fact he retired for 2 years during his prime and missed out on basically his entire second season due to injury. He had 32k career points but was putting up around 2,400-2,500 points per year on average for most of his career. You give him those three years and he would've scored 40k+ most likely. My opinion on the GOAT is the best player of all time when they were at their best. Jordan's accolades trump LeBron's in basically every way other than career points scored. Not to mention he was also the DPOY at one point in addition to his scoring numbers. If scoring a ton of points on terrible teams makes you the GOAT, then LeBron cemented it the last couple years. Edited February 8, 2023 by NYRaider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsoxsuck05 Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 Just now, Bullet Club said: Whose fault is that? I'm js, whether MJ retired or not after the first threepeat doesn't really change how I perceive him as a player. It just means he scored less points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: Jordan is the NBA's all time leader in PPG for the regular season and the playoffs though. You also have to account for the fact he retired for 2 years during his prime and missed out on basically his entire second season due to injury. He had 32k career points but was putting up around 2,400-2,500 points per year on average for most of his career. You give him those three years and he would've scored 40k+ most likely. Why should I give him credit for seasons he didn't play because he chose to retire? That's not how career value works. I already said he probably was the better player. Just now, redsoxsuck05 said: I'm js, whether MJ retired or not after the first threepeat doesn't really change how I perceive him as a player. It just means he scored less points. I'm not holding it against him as a player. I'm saying he doesn't get added career credit for hypothetical play when he willingly chose to retire. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 Just now, Bullet Club said: Why should I give him credit for seasons he didn't play because he chose to retire? That's not how career value works. I already said he probably was the better player. I'm not holding it against him as a player. I'm saying he doesn't get added career credit for hypothetical play when he willingly chose to retire. Do you value individual scoring numbers over championships, MVPs, Finals MVPs, and DPOYs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsoxsuck05 Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 Just now, Bullet Club said: Why should I give him credit for seasons he didn't play because he chose to retire? That's not how career value works. I already said he probably was the better player. I'm not holding it against him as a player. I'm saying he doesn't get added career credit for hypothetical play when he willingly chose to retire. We're just gonna go in circles over whether your idea of GOAT is the best peak, the best legacy, the best longevity, and how you weight all those things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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