Fire Dennis Allen

[whodatworm23]

28 minutes ago, Raves said:

So here's a question, we know Olave was a trade to begin with and was going to happen regardless.  How has the other 3 top OTs and the Georgia DTs looked this year?  If they've looked good, and we've seen the flashes from Penning in pre-season/TC, then the basis of the trade was good to begin with as every option would've been a good one.

Not sure of the original deal Loomis says was in place was with the Eagles or someone else. As far as the other tackles, the Alabama tackle went to the Giants has had some struggles but the Giants are surging. Another from Mississippi State went to Seattle and the same can be said for him and the Hawks. The North Carolina State tackle went to the Panthers and he has been impressive despite the Panthers record. Penning is the mystery, hopefully he pans out for us. The two DTs from Georgia, one went to the Eagles and it seems he's having an impact on them I think, the other went to the Packers and I'm unsure about him...

[Raves]

44 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

Not sure of the original deal Loomis says was in place was with the Eagles or someone else. As far as the other tackles, the Alabama tackle went to the Giants has had some struggles but the Giants are surging. Another from Mississippi State went to Seattle and the same can be said for him and the Hawks. The North Carolina State tackle went to the Panthers and he has been impressive despite the Panthers record. Penning is the mystery, hopefully he pans out for us. The two DTs from Georgia, one went to the Eagles and it seems he's having an impact on them I think, the other went to the Packers and I'm unsure about him...

Some struggles but they are starting right?  Rookie OTs, especially LTs typically struggle their rookie season anyways.  So in theory, the idea of making a move to get younger/better at important positions with players they were definitely sure 1 of 6 would be there, would've panned out for a long term investment.  All they gave up to draft Penning was a '24 2nd and a '23 3rd.  That's not a lot if you think about it outside of it the picks ends up busting, but I mean they could also get a top 5 pick this year, draft a bust, and the only difference is it didn't cost a future 2nd and 3rd on top of it, though definitely more money in base contract.

[whodatworm23]

15 minutes ago, Raves said:

Some struggles but they are starting right?  Rookie OTs, especially LTs typically struggle their rookie season anyways.  So in theory, the idea of making a move to get younger/better at important positions with players they were definitely sure 1 of 6 would be there, would've panned out for a long term investment.  All they gave up to draft Penning was a '24 2nd and a '23 3rd.  That's not a lot if you think about it outside of it the picks ends up busting, but I mean they could also get a top 5 pick this year, draft a bust, and the only difference is it didn't cost a future 2nd and 3rd on top of it, though definitely more money in base contract.

In theory I hear what your saying but let's be real... the Saints were operating under the idea that at worse they were dealing a future 1st in the 20-32 range for the 19th pick. If... IF that pick becomes a top 5-8 pick instead the trade value drastically changes and alters the narrative especially when the Saints clearly need an answer at QB in a QB deep class.

 

I've said this in the past... its the HCs job to win now and focus on the NOW. Its the GMs job to protect the sustained success of the future of the franchise. The GM has to be the adult in the room and think ahead. Loomis did not do that this offseason, he went all in on the present and thats fine as long as it works out but if it does not... of the guy you trade a ton for does not play (Penning), if the pick you trade away thinking its gonna be a late 1st ends up in the top 10 because your OLD roster you assembled sucks and you watch another club take a top prospect with the pick you could have finally took a swing on a potential franchise QB with... there need to be consequences for that. The biggest issue I have with Loomis is that it feels he operates with complete immunity and that needs to change.

[Raves]

24 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

In theory I hear what your saying but let's be real... the Saints were operating under the idea that at worse they were dealing a future 1st in the 20-32 range for the 19th pick. If... IF that pick becomes a top 5-8 pick instead the trade value drastically changes and alters the narrative especially when the Saints clearly need an answer at QB in a QB deep class.

 

I've said this in the past... its the HCs job to win now and focus on the NOW. Its the GMs job to protect the sustained success of the future of the franchise. The GM has to be the adult in the room and think ahead. Loomis did not do that this offseason, he went all in on the present and thats fine as long as it works out but if it does not... of the guy you trade a ton for does not play (Penning), if the pick you trade away thinking its gonna be a late 1st ends up in the top 10 because your OLD roster you assembled sucks and you watch another club take a top prospect with the pick you could have finally took a swing on a potential franchise QB with... there need to be consequences for that. The biggest issue I have with Loomis is that it feels he operates with complete immunity and that needs to change.

As you said, this is a deep QB class, maybe they were thinking they could get one at the top of the 2nd if they were bad and they would've needed a good LT to protect them anyways.

[Raves]

Also did you really think the roster would suck?  The OL was solid, great skill position players, a talented defense...  Also when you say old roster, are you talking just starters or entire roster?  I think the starters would've probably averaged around 27-29 y/o

[whodatworm23]

4 hours ago, Raves said:

Also did you really think the roster would suck?  The OL was solid, great skill position players, a talented defense...  Also when you say old roster, are you talking just starters or entire roster?  I think the starters would've probably averaged around 27-29 y/o

I'll say this...

The last 2 seasons for whatever reason the defense always seemed to get off to a slow start so I expected it. Looking at the age of the roster I did feel injuries could be an issue especially with guys like MT coming off injury and signing dudes coming off injury. I also felt that the loss of Sean Payton was being underappechiated from a standpoint of his ability to be the adult within the locker room and holding players accountable.

 

I did not believe this was a team that should have doubled down on an aging injured roster with cap issues. I felt it was an ideal time to consider rebuilding. I also didn't feel DA was a true HC. Great DC, but I don't trust him as a leader of a franchise of as a CEO. Especially this idea of continuing Paytons culture... I felt (still do) that this franchise would benifet from a CAP reset, a new voice with no connections to the past and a focus on building through the draft but I understand why it was so hard for them to let go of what they felt they had.

 

Did I expect the roster to suck... no but I also didn't feel this was a playoff team as constructed. 

[Mid Iowa]

@whodatworm23 where have you been? You went AWOL again!

Glad to see you back in the forum.

[whodatworm23]

On 11/2/2022 at 5:19 PM, Mid Iowa said:

@whodatworm23 where have you been? You went AWOL again!

Glad to see you back in the forum.

Uggghhh... dude!

 

Long story... make it short / COVID had me hospitalized for months on a vent then over a 6 month recovery only to recover in time for Hurricane IDA to destroy my home. Been rebuilding for over a year, just moved back in 1 week ago. Wild few years!

 

Good to be back tho... was starting to feel like MT 🤣 🤣 🤣 

[Fray32]

16 hours ago, whodatworm23 said:

Uggghhh... dude!

 

Long story... make it short / COVID had me hospitalized for months on a vent then over a 6 month recovery only to recover in time for Hurricane IDA to destroy my home. Been rebuilding for over a year, just moved back in 1 week ago. Wild few years!

 

Good to be back tho... was starting to feel like MT 🤣 🤣 🤣 

Wtf!?! Holy hell dude, I'm glad you've recovered your health and your home. Those must have been trying times for you and your family.

I just came to post this stray thought: I caught a bit of the Eagles/Texans game on Thursday and it really stung when they said CGJ had already been tied for the league lead in picks before the one he got last night. I have not been following him at all but I'm not even surprised he's going off in Philly.

[Mid Iowa]

On 11/3/2022 at 7:27 PM, whodatworm23 said:

Uggghhh... dude!

 

Long story... make it short / COVID had me hospitalized for months on a vent then over a 6 month recovery only to recover in time for Hurricane IDA to destroy my home. Been rebuilding for over a year, just moved back in 1 week ago. Wild few years!

 

Good to be back tho... was starting to feel like MT 🤣 🤣 🤣 

Wow, man. Sorry you went through all of that.

I hope you're well, and I hope you have a good roof over your head.

As always, glad to have you back!

[gen. manager]

On 10/26/2022 at 9:57 AM, Raves said:

Yeah, the only thing "unattractive" about the New Orleans job is the lack of a franchise QB and the necessary draft pick to try to draft one high this year.  The OL has 2 young studs firmly entrenched with Penning likely to be the 3rd.  Ruiz is starting to come around, though still a project.  The skill positions are loaded with MT, Olave, Kamara for long term and even Landry for a potential few years.  The defense is also damn good with it's biggest weakness probably being the safeties.

I don’t see how you can fully depend on an oft injured Mike Thomas and a rapidly aging Jarvis Landry as guys who can make this job attractive. DD isn’t getting any younger, Cam Jordan isn’t, Marcus Davenport has been a bust, call it what it is. We have an issue at the safety position. The DLine has been wildly disappointing. Name recognition makes this team talented. As far as production on the field, they leave a lot to be desired in my eyes. 

[gen. manager]

And this Dennis Allen business of “we’re still in it” someone needs to pull him aside and tell him to stop it. But Mickey Loomis should also be held accountable. He shouldn’t escape criticism either. We’ve given him credit for cap wizardry but when has he made a trade that seemingly made sense? We’re always losing trades it seems.

[Kingram]

Dennis Allen better be fired after this year. I'm usually very patient but its painfully obvious he just doesn't have it. Lack of attention to detail, the players are feeding of his energy...which is non-existent. 

You gave him a chance. I'd offer him back the DC job, keep the money. If he says no you cut ties. Bring in the Eagles OC. He was Herberts OC his rookie season, and helped Hurts take huge strides this year.

 

[tyler735]

It’s my understanding that Jameis Winston has been healthy enough to play the past few weeks, but Dennis Allen has preferred Dalton. I’m at the point where if I see Dalton next week as our starting QB, Dennis Allen should be fired immediately after the game. 
 

Our offense has been so limited in recent weeks. It’s like watching Brees in his final years except Dalton has nowhere near Brees’s football IQ or accuracy. There has been hardly any threat of downfield passes despite having a guy like Olave that can take the top off a defense. 
 

Winston has his faults as well, but at least he has the arm talent to make some plays down field and evade a pass rusher to keep a play alive. Dalton is a statue that takes too many sacks, turns the ball over too much, and provides barely any upside passing the ball. About the only positive he brought to the table was regularly using Kamara as a check down, but he hasn’t even pulled that off very well the past couple games.

[gen. manager]

1 hour ago, tyler735 said:

It’s my understanding that Jameis Winston has been healthy enough to play the past few weeks, but Dennis Allen has preferred Dalton. I’m at the point where if I see Dalton next week as our starting QB, Dennis Allen should be fired immediately after the game. 
 

Our offense has been so limited in recent weeks. It’s like watching Brees in his final years except Dalton has nowhere near Brees’s football IQ or accuracy. There has been hardly any threat of downfield passes despite having a guy like Olave that can take the top off a defense. 
 

Winston has his faults as well, but at least he has the arm talent to make some plays down field and evade a pass rusher to keep a play alive. Dalton is a statue that takes too many sacks, turns the ball over too much, and provides barely any upside passing the ball. About the only positive he brought to the table was regularly using Kamara as a check down, but he hasn’t even pulled that off very well the past couple games.

Well the front office needs to intervene if Winston is healthy or Mrs. Benson needs to go ahead and clean house. Just start it all over. Get a new GM and a head coach. Just none of these New England disasters that never pan out. Or promote someone from within who has new and fresh ideas.