Week 8: Packers @ Bills on SNF / Postgame: Packers lose to Bills 27-17, fall to 3-5

[Mazrimiv]

We are all wrong about Tom.  PFF says he was good.

[Sandy]

1 minute ago, ThatJerkDave said:

That is a fair assessment of Tom.  I think that he really needed this season to work in practice, and the weight room and then come back next year and hit the ground running. But circumstances can change.  

In my completely amateur view, Yosh looked a ton better against Buffalo than he did against Washington.  Maybe he improved, maybe they helped him more, maybe I am dumb as hell.  Probably part way all three.  

Luckily Tom should end up back on the bench when Jenkins gets back, giving him that time he needs.

Similar amateur view from here, but I agree he was way better. I don't think he had a single penalty I can recall, which was huge. But I still think he's a step below how he looked on the left while he adjusts to everything being opposite 

[vegas492]

35 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

But are you worried about Tom? The only concern I have for him, is that maybe he has maxed out his body already and will not be able to add that functional strength.  He has played with good technique (minus the huge whiff last night 🤣) and he always fights when he is in.  We can't count on him to be a permanent starter this season, but as a utility guy, I don't really have too much of a problem.  Get him an offseason, or maybe even two, and I think we have a good one.  

Am I worried about Tom?  At LT?  No.

At any guard or center position?  Absolutely.

At tackle, you can be very good by just getting the way.  Elite guys can move their guys, but you can be a good starter just by being in the right place and not letting anyone get by.

At guard, you gotta move people.  And you need to anchor.  With his lack of strength and base, he is just not good there.

Kid needs base strength big time.  So I have little long term "worry" about him, especially at LT.

[vegas492]

20 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said:

The only “harm” I saw in losing Walker vs BUF is the general idea of him needing all the reps as he can get so that the light eventually (hopefully?) comes on for him. 

As for last night in isolation, I am not at all convinced that losing Walker hurt the defense in any meaningful way.

This kind of goes back to the old mantra of not taking ILB (non premium position) in round one.

I do hold out hope that with his skillset, he will be a beast in the future.  But for now, he's not moving the needle.

Course, he is moving it more than Wyatt, who was a premium position.

[vegas492]

14 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

Remember last week when Jaire sucked according to some?

 

 

I loved that JA was chippy.  Hope it keeps up.  He needs to alpha dog that entire defense.

And it is distressing a little that Kenny Clark's name isn't on the "good" list.

[craig]

Tom is really small.  He's going to be bull-rushed wherever you place him, and he's not going to ever push the line in run game or short yardage.  He's not that young, 23.5, so not sure how much functional strength he can still add.  Every little bit helps, *IF* doing so doesn't cost him the agility and quickness that he has.  I still kinda think that center is often where smaller guys play; to me that seems like the place where he's got the best chance to become an average starter.  Guard is the spot where he's got the worst chance.  

[squire12]

3 minutes ago, craig said:

Tom is really small.  He's going to be bull-rushed wherever you place him, and he's not going to ever push the line in run game or short yardage.  He's not that young, 23.5, so not sure how much functional strength he can still add.  Every little bit helps, *IF* doing so doesn't cost him the agility and quickness that he has.  I still kinda think that center is often where smaller guys play; to me that seems like the place where he's got the best chance to become an average starter.  Guard is the spot where he's got the worst chance.  

its crazy how he is only listed as 6 pounds lighter than Bahktiari

[Striker]

23 minutes ago, Sandy said:

I think this team isn't too far away. Interesting that the teams we've lost to all have winning records or are at .500.

We need more bodies at WR.  The lack of options was criminal. Watson and Watkins still can't get through a game. Toure is too raw - although I liked what I saw on the TD play. Hoping to see some reinforcements so Lazard and Doubs can have some help the second half of the season.

They're carrying six on the roster plus Cobb on IR. You're not going to be able to stash any of the six on the practice squad. You could release a depth guy, but carrying eight or more WRs is really pushing the balance of your roster/overall positional depth. They're kind of stuck unless they trade for someone as that player would be more than just a body.

[Mr. Fussnputz]

1 hour ago, ThatJerkDave said:

Do you think that Savage is salvageable? Say we fire the entire defensive coaching staff and start over.  Is Savage ever going to be good, or is he just this guy we are seeing right now? He was trending that way under Pettine too.  The depth at that position is underwhelming though.  The only real functional back-up is Rudy Ford, and I have a sneaking suspicion that he will start to look worse and worse as he is asked to play more snaps.  This is one that I don't have any idea how to address.  The offensive line and WRs, unfortunately, just need to get healthy and experienced, individually and as a unit.  I don't think that is the problem with the safeties.   

I think he is what he is. It's time to move on. No second contract. Nixon or Ford would be better, (Nixon or Ford? Did I just say that?! LOL)

[incognito_man]

46 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

Remember last week when Jaire sucked according to some

No, I don't remember that 

[Arthur Penske]

43 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

No, I don't remember that 

Must have been all the Viking fan group threads I’m on and Twitter trade proposals with Jaire for a WR

Edited October 31, 2022 by Arthur Penske

[Arthur Penske]

59 minutes ago, craig said:

Tom is really small.  He's going to be bull-rushed wherever you place him, and he's not going to ever push the line in run game or short yardage.  He's not that young, 23.5, so not sure how much functional strength he can still add.  Every little bit helps, *IF* doing so doesn't cost him the agility and quickness that he has.  I still kinda think that center is often where smaller guys play; to me that seems like the place where he's got the best chance to become an average starter.  Guard is the spot where he's got the worst chance.  

I think Tom’s gonna be a good one. He started out rough but then picked it up at guard. But hoping his long term is a high end tackle.

 

and can’t add strength in an NFL program past 23.5 years? I’m not sure about that. Everyone is different but I put on a lot more mass/strength after like 26-27.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Arthur Penske

[craig]

Tom can probably add more strength.  I'm not sure how much, and how much he can add without compromising his quickness and agility?  Maybe lots, maybe not that much?  It's a question.  He's been a smart kid in an SEC program with a father and brother who are already familiar with the body-building resources that SEC schools have.  So it's somewhat possible that he's been working at building strength for a long time, and may already be closer to his optimal physique than most 23.5-year-old men, or most 23.5-year-old NFL players.  But yeah, it's a question; and the answer will partly impact how and where his career will go.  

[craig]

Doubs made a couple of very fine catches last night.  That was fun.  he also didn't catch a contested deep ball where I thought he might almost have been able to jump a little bit higher and more aggressively to snag that one, too.  (Had he done so, it would be have been really a great night for him.). 

That said, on all three of those variably deep targets, he was VERY well covered.  All three were heavily contested catches, none cases where his speed/quickness/strength had somehow created significant separation.  (Nothing like the two throws to Toure, both of which he was WIDE open.). 

Doubs remains a work in progress, and I hope he ends up excellent.  But yeah, I'm not sure his play thus far has established that he's unusually elusive, or gifted at creating unusual amounts of separation?  

[vegas492]

12 minutes ago, craig said:

Doubs made a couple of very fine catches last night.  That was fun.  he also didn't catch a contested deep ball where I thought he might almost have been able to jump a little bit higher and more aggressively to snag that one, too.  (Had he done so, it would be have been really a great night for him.). 

That said, on all three of those variably deep targets, he was VERY well covered.  All three were heavily contested catches, none cases where his speed/quickness/strength had somehow created significant separation.  (Nothing like the two throws to Toure, both of which he was WIDE open.). 

Doubs remains a work in progress, and I hope he ends up excellent.  But yeah, I'm not sure his play thus far has established that he's unusually elusive, or gifted at creating unusual amounts of separation?  

Eh.

If I'm remembering it right...one of the deep ones to Doubs was down the middle off of a throw back to Rodgers from a RB.

Looked to me like Doubs split the corner and safety with ease.  Then had to throttle back so the ball could get to him.

I thought it showed a lot of what Doubs can do...in regards to pure speed.  Ball was late and underthrown by a little bit.

But Doubs still split both guys easily.