The Good, the Bad, the Raiders finally showed up vs. Houston (Post-game Chat)

[BackinBlack]

6 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

I forgot who I was arguing with about us having more than enough firepower on offense to score in every qtr in a game and they said I was being unrealistic. Well we just did that yesterday. Won’t get too excited cause it’s the Texans tho

Haha was def with me, and def happy with our O. Still need to improve the start of game though. 
 

and just circumstances of game dictate what you can do. If you only get one possession in a qtr, you’re not always going to score. 
Our D yesterday gave us mult drives a quarter yesterday.

[ronjon1990]

6 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I do not get why people are so disappointed by the defense.  They did what you would want from a team playing the Texans.  Bend don't break and let the offense beat their defense.  They gave up 20 points which is not great but not bad.  If you count the pick six that is a net of 13 points for the Texans offense.  Now they still have issues and that was expected.  That was a good team win over a bad team we should have beat.  I am not going to get down on the team nor am I going to think this team is all of a sudden a contender.  Some good easy wins is what we need to start believing in ourselves again and then we will be ready to test some higher caliber teams.  Entire team needs to stay hungry and focused.  Both Josh and Graham need to keep it simple and make the easy decisions.  We are a better team than our record indicates but we still need to work as a team for 60 minutes.

I can't speak for everyone else but here's my reasons:

1. We spent a lot of money on guys who haven't really produced. Crosby is seen as a top of the list pass rusher, yet Graham consistently calls 3 man rushes that limit both Crosby and Jones' effectiveness because we have no bull rush DT. 

2. He rarely blitzes and when he does, it's like a game too late. 

3. He uses our DBs horridly. It's clear as day why his former defensive backs rebound. 

4. Graham has very poor in game adjustments and awareness. 

5. We gave up 20. To the Texans. And lucked into a desperation situation on their part to make the score look better in the end. They were moving the ball down 11. It could've been a much much closer game without that one break. Now, credit for the play and getting it closed out. But we're still talking a 1 point game has Houston not missed their FG earlier. Had it been a 1 score game at the time, I have little faith in us maintaining it other than Houston's offense is arguably the worst we've faced.....and they still looked pretty good most of the way. 

6. Our offense is starting to gel and you can see how much more effective it will be as time goes on. Timing is better. Blocking is better aside from Eleumenor. Adams and Hollins fight for jump balls. Renfrow is finding a bit of a groove. Carr looks significantly better in everything but the stat column, which looks like it could come. Jacobs looks fantastic. Moreau is filling in nicely for Waller. 

The same can't be said for the defense. They look worse overall really. Guys get left wide open far too often. Our safeties are in man too often. Our CBs are in soft zones too often. We still rush 3 too often. It's just nearly impossible to look at our defensive scheme and play calling and go "Ah, I see it. As time goes on...". It's just not there. We have enough in the raw talent department to starve off bottom rung offenses, but beyond that? And even then it takes an entire game to truly keep bottom rung offenses down. The level of optimism there is with the offense to get better is at least based on what were flashes and some adjustments. The same just can't be said with Graham's D. And the Giants D didn't change that much personnel-wise, but look leaps and bounds better without Graham. 

7. Our defensive deficiency is going to hold the team back, no matter how good the offense looks. We were nearly perfect on offense yesterday, scored 31 points, probably could've score more, and yet we were still an INT return TD away from a one score game against a league bottom offense that simply didn't look league bottom against us. Bend but don't break is an excuse for defenses that aren't particularly good, and only works until it breaks- which it has for us in pretty much every game this year. 

If we settle for winning because our offense gets it done in spite of our defense, that's a wrap. It's not sustainable. We won't be playing many more games against bottom tier teams on both sides of the ball. Houston had a bad offense that looked good and came in with one of the worse run defenses in the league, and we took over. That isn't going to be weekly and if we played like we did yesterday on defense against virtually everyone else other than Houston and Denver, we don't win. 

I wouldn't be disappointed in the defense if we'd made marginal progress, but we haven't. And nothing Patrick Graham has ever done (aside from being fired) gives me reason to believe brighter days are ahead for this defense. 

 

 

[BobbyPhil1781]

We are going to keep things in perspective b/c it was the Texans but the first three games, we were averaging 21.3 PPG and now, in the last three, we're averaging 33 PPG.

Anyone who jumped on this team right away, not acknowledging that learning this offense would take time (even when Adams said it was the most difficult offense he's played in) and it would take time for this team to gel, had unrealistic expectations to begin w/. Yes, winning those close games earlier in the season would've been great but nothing we can do about it now. Let's just hope our foot can stay on the gas and we can still keep averaging over 30 PPG b/c w/ our defense, we are likely going to need it.

Edited October 24, 2022 by BobbyPhil1781

[NCOUGHMAN]

47 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

Haha was def with me, and def happy with our O. Still need to improve the start of game though. 
 

and just circumstances of game dictate what you can do. If you only get one possession in a qtr, you’re not always going to score. 
Our D yesterday gave us mult drives a quarter yesterday.

I’ll take a fg over a donut any qtr

I hear you about the variables but we’re legit stacked on offense. Should put up 30 a game 

[NCOUGHMAN]

44 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

I can't speak for everyone else but here's my reasons:

1. We spent a lot of money on guys who haven't really produced. Crosby is seen as a top of the list pass rusher, yet Graham consistently calls 3 man rushes that limit both Crosby and Jones' effectiveness because we have no bull rush DT. 

2. He rarely blitzes and when he does, it's like a game too late. 

3. He uses our DBs horridly. It's clear as day why his former defensive backs rebound. 

4. Graham has very poor in game adjustments and awareness. 

5. We gave up 20. To the Texans. And lucked into a desperation situation on their part to make the score look better in the end. They were moving the ball down 11. It could've been a much much closer game without that one break. Now, credit for the play and getting it closed out. But we're still talking a 1 point game has Houston not missed their FG earlier. Had it been a 1 score game at the time, I have little faith in us maintaining it other than Houston's offense is arguably the worst we've faced.....and they still looked pretty good most of the way. 

6. Our offense is starting to gel and you can see how much more effective it will be as time goes on. Timing is better. Blocking is better aside from Eleumenor. Adams and Hollins fight for jump balls. Renfrow is finding a bit of a groove. Carr looks significantly better in everything but the stat column, which looks like it could come. Jacobs looks fantastic. Moreau is filling in nicely for Waller. 

The same can't be said for the defense. They look worse overall really. Guys get left wide open far too often. Our safeties are in man too often. Our CBs are in soft zones too often. We still rush 3 too often. It's just nearly impossible to look at our defensive scheme and play calling and go "Ah, I see it. As time goes on...". It's just not there. We have enough in the raw talent department to starve off bottom rung offenses, but beyond that? And even then it takes an entire game to truly keep bottom rung offenses down. The level of optimism there is with the offense to get better is at least based on what were flashes and some adjustments. The same just can't be said with Graham's D. And the Giants D didn't change that much personnel-wise, but look leaps and bounds better without Graham. 

7. Our defensive deficiency is going to hold the team back, no matter how good the offense looks. We were nearly perfect on offense yesterday, scored 31 points, probably could've score more, and yet we were still an INT return TD away from a one score game against a league bottom offense that simply didn't look league bottom against us. Bend but don't break is an excuse for defenses that aren't particularly good, and only works until it breaks- which it has for us in pretty much every game this year. 

If we settle for winning because our offense gets it done in spite of our defense, that's a wrap. It's not sustainable. We won't be playing many more games against bottom tier teams on both sides of the ball. Houston had a bad offense that looked good and came in with one of the worse run defenses in the league, and we took over. That isn't going to be weekly and if we played like we did yesterday on defense against virtually everyone else other than Houston and Denver, we don't win. 

I wouldn't be disappointed in the defense if we'd made marginal progress, but we haven't. And nothing Patrick Graham has ever done (aside from being fired) gives me reason to believe brighter days are ahead for this defense. 

 

 

Gotta let the games play imo

people mad defense gave up 20 to Texans iirc sd gave up 24 to them

Some mad defense gave up 30 to kc, sf just gave up 44 to them

defense is working with a skeleton crew and still playing admirably 

[dante9876]

51 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

I can't speak for everyone else but here's my reasons:

1. We spent a lot of money on guys who haven't really produced. Crosby is seen as a top of the list pass rusher, yet Graham consistently calls 3 man rushes that limit both Crosby and Jones' effectiveness because we have no bull rush DT. 

2. He rarely blitzes and when he does, it's like a game too late. 

3. He uses our DBs horridly. It's clear as day why his former defensive backs rebound. 

4. Graham has very poor in game adjustments and awareness. 

5. We gave up 20. To the Texans. And lucked into a desperation situation on their part to make the score look better in the end. They were moving the ball down 11. It could've been a much much closer game without that one break. Now, credit for the play and getting it closed out. But we're still talking a 1 point game has Houston not missed their FG earlier. Had it been a 1 score game at the time, I have little faith in us maintaining it other than Houston's offense is arguably the worst we've faced.....and they still looked pretty good most of the way. 

6. Our offense is starting to gel and you can see how much more effective it will be as time goes on. Timing is better. Blocking is better aside from Eleumenor. Adams and Hollins fight for jump balls. Renfrow is finding a bit of a groove. Carr looks significantly better in everything but the stat column, which looks like it could come. Jacobs looks fantastic. Moreau is filling in nicely for Waller. 

The same can't be said for the defense. They look worse overall really. Guys get left wide open far too often. Our safeties are in man too often. Our CBs are in soft zones too often. We still rush 3 too often. It's just nearly impossible to look at our defensive scheme and play calling and go "Ah, I see it. As time goes on...". It's just not there. We have enough in the raw talent department to starve off bottom rung offenses, but beyond that? And even then it takes an entire game to truly keep bottom rung offenses down. The level of optimism there is with the offense to get better is at least based on what were flashes and some adjustments. The same just can't be said with Graham's D. And the Giants D didn't change that much personnel-wise, but look leaps and bounds better without Graham. 

7. Our defensive deficiency is going to hold the team back, no matter how good the offense looks. We were nearly perfect on offense yesterday, scored 31 points, probably could've score more, and yet we were still an INT return TD away from a one score game against a league bottom offense that simply didn't look league bottom against us. Bend but don't break is an excuse for defenses that aren't particularly good, and only works until it breaks- which it has for us in pretty much every game this year. 

If we settle for winning because our offense gets it done in spite of our defense, that's a wrap. It's not sustainable. We won't be playing many more games against bottom tier teams on both sides of the ball. Houston had a bad offense that looked good and came in with one of the worse run defenses in the league, and we took over. That isn't going to be weekly and if we played like we did yesterday on defense against virtually everyone else other than Houston and Denver, we don't win. 

I wouldn't be disappointed in the defense if we'd made marginal progress, but we haven't. And nothing Patrick Graham has ever done (aside from being fired) gives me reason to believe brighter days are ahead for this defense. 

 

 

All this and honestly houston was a false start and a drop pass from doing more on offense. I honestly didn't see anything from defense other than pick 6 to be happy about. Mills look like a legit qb for 3 qtrs. We couldn't do nothing about it. 

[ronjon1990]

1 minute ago, dante9876 said:

All this and honestly houston was a false start and a drop pass from doing more on offense. I honestly didn't see anything from defense other than pick 6 to be happy about. Mills look like a legit qb for 3 qtrs. We couldn't do nothing about it. 

Yeah, the pick 6 was a relief, but that's kind of the problem. 

The pick 6 should feel like a capstone, slamming the door shut, not a lucky break to seal things up. I was holding my breath on that drive, and usually when up 2 scores late you don't have to do that. But 2 scores with this D can disappear with one 3-and-out on offense, as we've seen numerous times this season already.

It wasn't a particularly good overall performance outside of that one nifty play. That'll work against bad teams, not good ones. 

[dante9876]

5 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Gotta let the games play imo

people mad defense gave up 20 to Texans iirc sd gave up 24 to them

Some mad defense gave up 30 to kc, sf just gave up 44 to them

defense is working with a skeleton crew and still playing admirably 

Chargers defense garbage though. Just a bunch a names that's poorly coached. Herbert only reason Stanly holding on to his job. 

You can see a talented crew who is poorly coached, chargers. You can see a team playing above it's talent that is coach well, giants. Than you have us who lack talent but also don't use the talent we have in a way to be successful. 

[Dessie]

15 hours ago, Dessie said:

Ol looked better with Munford in.

 

[dante9876]

Can anybody come up with any kind of logical explanation for what we doing at RT. Do Munford suck in practice or something. 

[true2form]

9 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

Can anybody come up with any kind of logical explanation for what we doing at RT. Do Munford suck in practice or something. 

Only thing I can think of is that Munford still makes a rookie mistake here and there so they go back to Elumeanor.  They need to just let him work through the rookie growing pains and leave him out there.

[Dessie]

1 hour ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

We are going to keep things in perspective b/c it was the Texans but the first three games, we were averaging 21.3 PPG and now, in the last three, we're averaging 33 PPG.

Anyone who jumped on this team right away, not acknowledging that learning this offense would take time (even when Adams said it was the most difficult offense he's played in) and it would take time for this team to gel, had unrealistic expectations to begin w/. Yes, winning those close games earlier in the season would've been great but nothing we can do about it now. Let's just hope our foot can stay on the gas and we can still keep averaging over 30 PPG b/c w/ our defense, we are likely going to need it.

Good post, Defense is the same regarding taking time to gel. I think this team is going to get better on both sides of the ball as the season goes on. 

However some have already nailed their flags to the mast and won’t budge meaning we will be subject to all sorts of nit picking even when we win to try to validate their point. 

[MrOaktown_56]

1 hour ago, Dessie said:

 

7th round steal by Ziegler. 

[Darbsk]

9 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Josh Jacobs wasn't worth a 1st round pick tho

I guess this is a dig at myself 😁

Prior to this year, he wasn’t, and I don’t think there’s much arguing that. Not picking up his fifth year option I felt was the right decision at the time.
 

However, This year, he is proving me totally wrong and SO FAR is absolutely worth that late first round pick. I really hope he keeps it up, stays healthy and if he does so I’ll be delighted to be proved totally wrong and look foolish 😀

Kudos to you NYRaider, you stuck with your opinion and never backed down (especially when it wasn’t popular) and it looks like you were right and I was wrong 👍🏼🍻

[RaidersAreOne]