Rockice_8 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 2 hours ago, jetfuel34 said: Did I just read this right. Zach is good when he has no pressure and is terrible when he is under pressure. Umm that is like 100% of all QB's in this league. The vast majority of the QB's in the NFL, including backuos, are good when no one is in their face. That is not a good thing at all. Also he has had the same coaches now since he has stepped in. Just face it guys he has not done the job. At some point this year he has to step up and play a full good game. I don't see this happening. What we have seen the last few games is what Zach is a running QB that has trouble hitting his points. The line is not that bad. I know they have had injuries but all these teams do. The OL is rihght in the middle of the pack. Just think when was the last time Zach hit 300 yards or even had 2 TD's in 1 game. That is not a good sign at all. I think you missed the point. It's not that he struggles with pressure it's that he's borderline elite when not facing pressure. I see that as the biggest take from these stats. You see the talent there so if he can just improve his stats under pressure and become average you have a borderline top 10 QB on your hands. He really didn't have to deal with pressure so much in college so he's learning on the fly here. If he can start to understand when and where the pressure is coming, where his hot route is, he'll be much better. MLF needs to be better there in calling the right plays now when you can predict the blitz is coming. The OL also needs to be better and it will it's just that we can't seem to get an y consistency with all the injuries. I expect things to improve as the season goes on. Not every week will we have to play the best pass defense, in Mile High, in high wind. Once the OL after the break gets some reinforcements I see no reason we won't see the improvement in the passing game. Plus you got team like DET, JAC, SEA, etc. who are easier to throw on. I'm looking for one thing manly from Zach and that's 3rd down efficiency. If nothing else improves this year doing that alone would be a huge boost to the offense. The offense with Prime Brady or Allen under center will and always will be a run first team. If they can impose their will on teams play great defense that is what they want to do. It's never going to be about 300+ yard games or throwing 5+ TDs it will always be about the trenches and winning games with ball control. Need to sustain drives more that is the key for playing QB in this system right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrade Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 56 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said: Why he is being pressured matters though. Free rushers, for example, seem to be the biggest issue with our pass pro. If he's spending more time under pressure actually trying to escape from it rather than hit his hot read then of course his statistics are going to be poor. Of course, he should perform better under duress but the pressure rate is insane (24%), by comparison Josh Allen, the least pressured QB, is at 12.5%. (not comparing the two as players before anyone goes there) Why he is pressured certainly matters in the grand scheme of things. Keep in mind how this discussion got started. Someone mentioned Zach is good when clean and bad when pressured. I merely provided numbers backing this up. Hypothetical situation: Zach attempts 30 passes. He has a clean pocket on 15 attempts and his QBR is 100 and when pressured 15 times his QBR is 0. His final QBR would be 50. If the OL is responsible for those 15 pressures they are partly responsible for the 50 QBR but not necessarily on the 0 QBR. Next game: 30 attempts, 25 in a clean pocket and 5 under duress same QBR's. The OL played much better so the overall QBR is 83. BUT, Zach still had a 0 QBR on 5 attempts. That is on Zach. If Zach could even get a 40 QBR when under pressure the total QBR would jump to 90. The point is that the OL, MLF, WR, etc have an impact on the total outcome but ZW is solely responsible for his poor play when pressured. Minimize the pressure rate and ZW looks better but it still does not take away from how poor he looks when pressured. That is something that has to be fixed by Zach by performing better when pressured and the team to minimize the frequency. If I'm a DC, I am blitzing as much as possible against Zach. Maybe not so much on a QB that can handle it better which, by the numbers I posted, is any other QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfNewYork Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 28 minutes ago, xrade said: Why he is pressured certainly matters in the grand scheme of things. Keep in mind how this discussion got started. Someone mentioned Zach is good when clean and bad when pressured. I merely provided numbers backing this up. Hypothetical situation: Zach attempts 30 passes. He has a clean pocket on 15 attempts and his QBR is 100 and when pressured 15 times his QBR is 0. His final QBR would be 50. If the OL is responsible for those 15 pressures they are partly responsible for the 50 QBR but not necessarily on the 0 QBR. Next game: 30 attempts, 25 in a clean pocket and 5 under duress same QBR's. The OL played much better so the overall QBR is 83. BUT, Zach still had a 0 QBR on 5 attempts. That is on Zach. If Zach could even get a 40 QBR when under pressure the total QBR would jump to 90. The point is that the OL, MLF, WR, etc have an impact on the total outcome but ZW is solely responsible for his poor play when pressured. Minimize the pressure rate and ZW looks better but it still does not take away from how poor he looks when pressured. That is something that has to be fixed by Zach by performing better when pressured and the team to minimize the frequency. If I'm a DC, I am blitzing as much as possible against Zach. Maybe not so much on a QB that can handle it better which, by the numbers I posted, is any other QB. Being pressured on 50% of your passes vs 16% is such a vast difference. Makes it impossible to effectively establish a rhythm. To solely blame him for his lack of success under duress is unfair especially when he's avoiding sacks and throwing the ball away. The blitzing isn't the issue, it's it being picked up. This is a team sport, it's never on one guy solely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfNewYork Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 What can Zach do better when pressured? Get the ball out quicker, step up into the pocket, escape to the flats and get his eyes downfield. What can the OL/TE/RB do to help mitigate the pressure? First of all, know who you're blocking(Tomlinson), and pick up the blitz better. What can MLF do to help both slow down the pressure? Screen passes for the love of God, speed outs to Zach's strong side, move the pocket, and keep running the ball. PA/RPO passing. Only 28 of Zach's 101 passes have been PA/RPO, that's not nearly enough though we've played with a lead for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYJets4716 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 The issue with Zach's pressures is, they are usually pressure that is right up the middle extremely fast. Most QBs would be sacked a whole lot, but Wilson is really good at escaping sacks and keeping plays alive. People want to bash on his Broncos game, but lets be real. he was running for his life and under constant duress, not many QBs are great when they are constantly pressured, especially up the middle. The most uncomfortable thing for a QB is up the middle pressure. Chris Simms was talking about it, he was like most young QBs in that game would throw 2-3 INTs. The Broncos defense has made a lot of QBs look bad this season, their struggles is their offense isn't scoring much, every one of their losses are low scoring ugly games. I'm not saying Wilson is doing great or bad, but it's hard to judge him on some of these things. He needs better protection on some of these plays, throws that allows him to get into rhythm, he only has 1 TD pass because the Jets have ran it in when in the redzone. I expect Zach to throw some TD passes coming up. Without Breece Hall at RB, things change. Breece Hall was a elite talent at RB, I am still depressed over it, we never have guys that good on offense. The OL is in shambles, we lost AVT, who knows who is starting at RT. We need MLF to really do his best coaching. Run game lost a game breaking talent. Michael Carter is still good, James Robinson is solid but he had a achilles injury. I haven't seen anything about Elijah not playing this week, this is probably the time we need a guy like him to step up and become that playmaker for us. Him and Garret Wilson need to make plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYJets4716 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 Jermaine Johnson apparently is going to return this week. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYJets4716 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 Saleh said Elijah is playing this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreen420 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 4 minutes ago, NYJets4716 said: Saleh said Elijah is playing this week. Really wish we could keep him inactive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYJets4716 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 15 minutes ago, GangGreen420 said: Really wish we could keep him inactive Nope, Saleh said he spoke with him and Moore is ready to go. Just wants to contribute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted October 26, 2022 Author Share Posted October 26, 2022 22 minutes ago, NYJets4716 said: Nope, Saleh said he spoke with him and Moore is ready to go. Just wants to contribute. They call that bipolar. One person to Saleh’s face but different when not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrade Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 58 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said: What can Zach do better when pressured What do all the other QB's do when pressured? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetfuel34 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 Moore has to play. We need him with Davis most likely out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekill08x Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 27 minutes ago, NYJets4716 said: Nope, Saleh said he spoke with him and Moore is ready to go. Just wants to contribute. nothing has changed. he will still pout when he doesn' get the ball. he still doesn't get it. the sooner we move him the better. we are 5-2 and hes been a non factor and nothing be a distraction now. not to mention nobody on the team has publicly stuck up for him but becton, that is a bad sign lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYJets4716 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 17 minutes ago, ekill08x said: nothing has changed. he will still pout when he doesn' get the ball. he still doesn't get it. the sooner we move him the better. we are 5-2 and hes been a non factor and nothing be a distraction now. not to mention nobody on the team has publicly stuck up for him but becton, that is a bad sign lol. He''s going to get the ball. The Jets aren't trading him, maybe in the future but not now. They want to make it work, they aren't giving up on a talented young player who is immature and given bad advice. We didn't trade Mims just because he demanded a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYJets4716 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 Watching videos of Elijah in practice, he doesn't look like hes pouting or crying. He is laughing and having fun with his teammates, maybe we should just let this play out instead of jumping the gun on him. We have adults running this team and strong leadership, lets see what happens first. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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