Broncos fire OC Mike McCoy

[TheKillerNacho]

Meh

[jrry32]

Poor Mike McCoy. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken scat, and Brock Osweiler is worse than chicken scat.

[Blazer026]

Surprises me, hard to do much with Osweiler. 

[Pugger]

8 hours ago, flyers0909 said:

Saw the thread title quick and thought it said Mike McCarthy. 

McCarthy isn't going anywhere unless the president of the corperation fires Ted Thompson and hires a GM from outside the organization.  If this happens the new GM will probably want to hire his own guy.  

[Dr LBC]

16 hours ago, jrry32 said:

Poor Mike McCoy. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken scat, and Brock Osweiler is worse than chicken scat.

To be fair, Mike McCoy was always going to make tuna salad regardless of what ingredients he had, that's just who Mike McCoy is.  Canned chicken... tuna salad.  Fresh chicken... tuna salad.  Chicken scat... tuna salad.

What's stood out to me about this thread is... weren't we just seeing Elway being championed as one of the best GM's in the league 9 months ago and now he's "the problem."  I'm not saying that it's all on fans being fickle and that he doesn't deserve some blame, but I can't find the ease with which some people are content to swing from one pole to the other so quickly to be thoroughly entertaining (if also logically baffling).

[ET80]

Quick question for the group - whatever happened to Chad Kelly? Is he on the Broncos still?

[Broncofan]

23 minutes ago, The LBC said:

To be fair, Mike McCoy was always going to make tuna salad regardless of what ingredients he had, that's just who Mike McCoy is.  Canned chicken... tuna salad.  Fresh chicken... tuna salad.  Chicken scat... tuna salad.

What's stood out to me about this thread is... weren't we just seeing Elway being championed as one of the best GM's in the league 9 months ago and now he's "the problem."  I'm not saying that it's all on fans being fickle and that he doesn't deserve some blame, but I can't find the ease with which some people are content to swing from one pole to the other so quickly to be thoroughly entertaining (if also logically baffling).

Overall, though, he still is one of the 10 best GM's - 2 years ago, though, he was in the running to be top 2-3 GM.   He kills cap management, gets value FA finds, and his Day 3 draft record and UFA's still is really impressive.   He's always had a Day 2 draft weakness - we've been saying it for years now - but the UFA's/Day 3 picks and cheap bargain FA's kept those misses at bay - when we had the 2011 draft class around cheaply.   

That's why he gets lauded, and rightfully so....but it did mask a draft approach change that he's adopted since the 2013 SB48 that's magnified his Day 2 weaknesses into Day 1 - drafting like we're "one-player-away" and going need rather than overall BPA, and locking into "his guys" with great athletic skills - and sushi-raw level football skills, and usually 2+ rounds earlier than their projected ADP.   That is what has led to a Day 2 washout rate since 2011-12 (he's literally 0 for 10, and I'm not counting this year, obv too soon, but the early returns on Rds 2-3 aren't great this year either..still there's time).   And that's the rub - sooner or later, when you stop drafting well overall (Day 3 still great, but Day 2 horrific, and now he's whiffing Day 1 out of "one-player-away" need-based approach when we are no longer one-player-away).

And FWIW it's not revisionist - the Denver Forum has recognized this for a while.  It's the one key flaw we hope he changes, and lets another real college scouting director change.   Don't believe me?  You don't have to - check the summer link - http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=588304&start=0   Read the draft record, and you'll see what we are talking about.

We've seen the decline coming for years - this is just the year when the butcher's bill has really come due.  We also still recognize the overall great stuff Elway's done - but if you want long-term success, you can't waste Day 2 (and of late, Day 1) like Elway has - you can only make up for it for so long.  Once the 2011 draft class became expensive or left in FA, our weaknesses have been building up.  Outsiders who don't follow us just don't recognize it as much as we have.   Here's the thing though - Elway's still great at all those other areas - but he's killing us with his Day 1-2 draft approach blind spot.  Now he's also learned from his mistakes and moved on (John Fox wasn't getting us to SB win, going offense-only heading into SB48, he changed gears after seeing the problem...hopefully he realizes the Day 1-2 need-based philosophy and locking in to "his guys" draft problem is on him).

[Dr LBC]

4 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Overall, though, he still is one of the 10 best GM's - 2 years ago, though, he was in the running to be top 2-3 GM.   He kills cap management, gets value FA finds, and his Day 3 draft record and UFA's still is really impressive.   He's always had a Day 2 draft weakness - we've been saying it for years now - but the UFA's/Day 3 picks and cheap bargain FA's kept those misses at bay - when we had the 2011 draft class around cheaply.   

That's why he gets lauded, and rightfully so....but it did mask a draft approach change that he's adopted since the 2013 SB48 that's magnified his Day 2 weaknesses into Day 1 - drafting like we're "one-player-away" and going need rather than overall BPA, and locking into "his guys" with great athletic skills - and sushi-raw level football skills, and usually 2+ rounds earlier than their projected ADP.   That is what has led to a Day 2 washout rate since 2011-12 (he's literally 0 for 10, and I'm not counting this year, obv too soon, but the early returns on Rds 2-3 aren't great this year either..still there's time).

And FWIW it's not revisionist - the Denver Forum has recognized this for a while.  It's the one key flaw we hope he changes, and lets another real college scouting director change.   Don't believe me?  You don't have to - check the summer link - http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=588304&start=0   

We've seen the decline coming for years - this is just the year when the butcher's bill has really come due.  We also still recognize the overall great stuff Elway's done - but if you want long-term success, you can't waste Day 2 (and of late, Day 1) like Elway has - you can only make up for it for so long.  Once the 2011 draft class became expensive or left in FA, our weaknesses have been building up.  Outsiders who don't follow us just don't recognize it as much as we have.

But see, that's kind of why I would have waited till seeing if he could have survived that butcher's bill before anointing him a Top 10 (or higher) GM.  Granted, I'm definitely one to take much more of the patient and long-view approach to things rather than rush to judgment.  But you can't deny that it certainly makes a GM's job significantly easier when he's able to dangle a future HOF QB under center (even if said QB is no longer in his prime, the name value still exists) in front of potential free agents (and vets seeking trades to teams in the Super Bowl hunt so that they themselves can chase a ring) - as that's exactly the type of player that others will take less money to play with because they feel more confident he'll lead them to the Owl.

I kind of feel like you have to wait to both anoint or curse a GM until after you see how they handle their first big swell of adversity after the success.  Now if a GM never has that success to begin with, curse him all you like, but that's not the case with the one (Elway) we're discussing here.

[Broncofan]

19 minutes ago, The LBC said:

But see, that's kind of why I would have waited till seeing if he could have survived that butcher's bill before anointing him a Top 10 (or higher) GM.  Granted, I'm definitely one to take much more of the patient and long-view approach to things rather than rush to judgment.  But you can't deny that it certainly makes a GM's job significantly easier when he's able to dangle a future HOF QB under center (even if said QB is no longer in his prime, the name value still exists) in front of potential free agents (and vets seeking trades to teams in the Super Bowl hunt so that they themselves can chase a ring) - as that's exactly the type of player that others will take less money to play with because they feel more confident he'll lead them to the Owl.

I kind of feel like you have to wait to both anoint or curse a GM until after you see how they handle their first big swell of adversity after the success.  Now if a GM never has that success to begin with, curse him all you like, but that's not the case with the one (Elway) we're discussing here.

To be fair, though, he already has done the full rebuild and did it masterfully in 2011.  And then changed the team from an O-first team in 2013 to a SB50 winner with D first.  And then parted ways with a winning coach deciding (John Fox, quite correctly) that he wasn't going to lead us to SB victory.  3 times he's already faced adversity and come out ahead (full rebuild might be a freebie, but the SB48 to go from O-first Peyton to a D-first team was very much against the grain, and walking away from Fox seems easy now, but people were amazed Elway went that way and called it nepotism going back to Kubiak from his playing days).    So he's really faced adversity 3x (although he took on the job for a rebuild, so he was getting a pass on #1).   

Elway still manages the cap amazingly well, and gets FA value..and his Day 3 draft record is terrific.   Elway's literally veered in 3 different directions (rebuild, then O-first to D-first, then away from Fox) when no one would have slammed him for sticking with what mostly works.   That's his greatest asset - not afraid to be bold, and change.  The key is if he sees his draft style is the problem here.   That may be an even harder thing to admit..admitting there's a problem is the first step, though.   We as a fanbase certainly see it.

Elway has a very clear weakness that has to change.   But you have to take the long view as well.  Elway's shown the ability to change when needed.  It's certainly needed now.   Now, if he doesn't change...he gets to fall further down the list.  But the rank is also one that's based on a body of work.   Overall, Elway gets credit for more than just Peyton...the above is all him.   But the game changes...and so will his standing (and even his security in another season or 2, even teflon wears out if it gets abused over years lol), if Elway can't adjust.  This was a key year for him to come through - and he hasn't.  So he deserves the fall.    The next year will show if he's able to once again adjust...otherwise, well....ack.

[SteelKing728]

As I said before, Musgrave can get creative with his calls (look at how he used Percy Harvin in Minnesota) but is pretty bad running a traditional offense (having 3 WRs run 10 yard curls on 3rd and 14).

That changed in Oakland but he had more talent.

I'd be surprised if Musgrave does much better.