Roquan Traded to Ravens

[dll2000]

11 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

Carter looks to be a DUDE, but if we’re picking that high and don’t take an offensive player people will be storming the gate unless we make some massive moves on offense pre-draft. 

I don't think so.  I think Bears fans are smarter than that.  You win with blue chippers not plugging in needs.

If Carter is a better blue chipper you take him.

 

[HuskieBear]

12 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I think Bears fans are smarter than that

might be the worst take i've seen on this board

[dll2000]

2 hours ago, HuskieBear said:

might be the worst take i've seen on this board

Valid point

 

[topwop1]

7 hours ago, dll2000 said:

I don't think so.  I think Bears fans are smarter than that.  You win with blue chippers not plugging in needs.

If Carter is a better blue chipper you take him.

 

Agreed. At first glance the talent at the top end of the draft seems to be better on the defensive side unless you are going for a QB in Young or Stroud 

I said it in a recent post that Bears fans need to be prepared for the team to take a defensive player in the first, most likely a DT or DE 

[WindyCity]

I do not think Roquan was a great scheme fit.

This defense does not offer the same amount of protection that the 3-4 does. He is small and not overly long and struggles to take on blockers. This was always going to be a schematic issue. Flus seems to favor tall, long armed LBs that can fend off lineman a little more.

This is also probably a result of Roquan's summer of weird contract negotiations.

 

I think the comp is fair, but it leaves the Bears with a horrific front 7 moving forward.

[Bfan]

16 hours ago, WindyCity said:

I do not think Roquan was a great scheme fit.

This defense does not offer the same amount of protection that the 3-4 does. He is small and not overly long and struggles to take on blockers. This was always going to be a schematic issue. Flus seems to favor tall, long armed LBs that can fend off lineman a little more.

This is also probably a result of Roquan's summer of weird contract negotiations.

 

I think the comp is fair, but it leaves the Bears with a horrific front 7 moving forward.

That is what the off season is for.  Bright spot(?) we get to see how offence deals with track meet.

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

18 hours ago, WindyCity said:

I do not think Roquan was a great scheme fit.

This defense does not offer the same amount of protection that the 3-4 does. He is small and not overly long and struggles to take on blockers. This was always going to be a schematic issue. Flus seems to favor tall, long armed LBs that can fend off lineman a little more.

This is also probably a result of Roquan's summer of weird contract negotiations.

 

I think the comp is fair, but it leaves the Bears with a horrific front 7 moving forward.

Roquan and this defense weren't perfect for each other, but I always felt it was more because we had a generally sub average DL with no particular standout player that could keep blockers from getting to Roquan.  The predraft notes on Roquan all turned out to be dead accurate in that he needs to be kept clean to do his job.  Give him a DL like the 9ers and I think he'd be excelling. 

[WindyCity]

On 11/3/2022 at 7:20 AM, RunningVaccs said:

Roquan and this defense weren't perfect for each other, but I always felt it was more because we had a generally sub average DL with no particular standout player that could keep blockers from getting to Roquan.  The predraft notes on Roquan all turned out to be dead accurate in that he needs to be kept clean to do his job.  Give him a DL like the 9ers and I think he'd be excelling. 

That is probably true. I am not sure they wanted to pay 20 million to a guy who also needed 20 million in protection in front of him.

[AZBearsFan]

1 hour ago, WindyCity said:

That is probably true. I am not sure they wanted to pay 20 million to a guy who also needed 20 million in protection in front of him.

I think that’s a pretty good way to put it, Windy. And given that we need big financial investments on both sides of the ball, that much on Smith probably would have meant less spent on the DL. All things considered, a strong DL with average LB play behind it is usually going to yield a better result than an averageish DL with a great LB behind it. Our porous run defense this year even with Smith is a good example of that.

The Claypool addition makes it far more feasible for us to load up in FA and early in the draft on the lines. All the more reason to like it.

Also, for as much **** as he got about it (especially here), doesn’t the current state of our run defense and DL play on the whole offer some vindication to Poles for prioritizing Ogunjobi at the outset of FA? Bad luck with the physical for sure, but he was spot on with recognizing the level to which an impact player was needed there. 

[dll2000]

Some forum posts and opinions from Roquans draft day, not to prove any kind of point.   Just for reminiscing. 

He was one of few first rounders we had in recent years and he was the consensus "safe" pick of that draft from analysts.  He was the guy with the highest floor.

...

Outside of Chubb we got the best defensive player in this draft from day one...and even that might be a push. - @Madmike90

David Shaw thinks he’s the best PLAYER in the draft. @beardown3231

Love Roquan....like kind of set thewhole tone for the GA defense @MonserinNC

His floor is REALLY high and ceiling is AllPro. Hard not to like the pick. @Sugashane

I really like Smith as a player. Not a huge fan of the value bc hes an a off ball lber, but if hes Willis then obviously it doesnt matter. @Superman(DH23)

Elite day 1 starter. Little risk. Love it.  @WindyCity

I am in the minority here I think. I look at Smith and see someone who really gets pushed around. Killer closing speed but OL and TE are going to squash him. 

Disappointed, but feeling better about it since everyone else seems high on the pick and has been around a lot longer than I... We'll see I guess.  @RunningVaccs

Smith is an outstanding player and a day 1 upgrade. This pick screams Fangio - build the strength of what is hopefully an elite defense up the middle, starting with an elite 5T and two excellent ILB. I’ve been after an edge rusher but impact players more than anything. Smith is definitely an impact player and a great addition. Grade A pick for me. @AZBearsFan

 

He is a more talented Deion Jones (Atlanta LB).   Jones is a good player so this bodes well for Bears.  Jones was also protected by Grady Jarred and Dontari Poe.   Smith will need similar protection.    Moves like a big corner back.   He is a darter in the box and iln traffic. Doesnt take on blocks because he can't.  His job is to fly around and make plays which he did better than anybody in college.  

I realy like the player if used properly and it was a need.  I think a number of other teams made nice trades and Bears conceivably could have been one of them, but that is crying over spilt milk.   Ill still dlscuss that more at eval of draft. - Me

...

In the end Roquan was a pretty good player for Bears and had the high floor most predicted, but didn't really move the needle all that much.   Why Flus was saying he wouldn't take an off ball LB that high.

If they could have used him as a blitzer more I think he would have been more impactful.

 

[Madmike90]

19 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

In the end Roquan was a pretty good player for Bears and had the high floor most predicted, but didn't really move the needle all that much.   Why Flus was saying he wouldn't take an off ball LB that high.

If they could have used him as a blitzer more I think he would have been more impactful.

 

I think that is the key...he was a really good player in those 3-4 defences for us but at the end of the day off the ball LBs aren't winning you much in today's NFL...Poles & Flus seem to understand that hence the basic swap of Roquan for Claypool...

I still can't believe how bad he looked at WILL in Flus' scheme...it seemed like such a natural fit but clearly not...getting back into the Ravens 3-4 will be good for him...just going to be very interesting to see what contract he signs there...maybe being traded makes him reassess having an agent and also what his value really is.

[dll2000]

I think part of thinking for Pace was with Roquan was he needed a win in first round.   He need a first round player to work out.

[Sugashane]

6 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I think part of thinking for Pace was with Roquan was he needed a win in first round.   He need a first round player to work out.

Yeah he had some serious pressure there. He got a little more breathing room as Floyd was able to move more offball and do more stunts with the Mack signing. As a straight EDGE he was pretty poor. Good number or pressures but didn't seal the edge well and struggled to just beat his guy with speed like Pace likely hoped.

 

That being said...
 

Quote

 

Sugashane's Draft Class

1. OLB - Marcus Davenport

2a. OLB - Harold Landry

2b. C - James Daniels

4. RT - Will Richardson

Traded our 5^th No. 156 and No. 226 from the Broncos

5. [156] - WR - Equanimeous St Brown

6. QB - Alex McGough

7a. WR Marcell Ateman

7b. [226] - OL - Jordan Mailata

 

Damn I had a good draft!!! lol.

 

Year before that @G08and I were driving the Mahomes train and Derrick Henry was a draft crush of mine, wanted to trade into the late first to get the 5th year option on him the year before. Easily the best 3 year stretch of drafts I have ever had, though some of my drafts before that would have had me unemployed prior to them. lol

[dll2000]

18 hours ago, Sugashane said:

Yeah he had some serious pressure there. He got a little more breathing room as Floyd was able to move more offball and do more stunts with the Mack signing. As a straight EDGE he was pretty poor. Good number or pressures but didn't seal the edge well and struggled to just beat his guy with speed like Pace likely hoped.

 

That being said...
 

Damn I had a good draft!!! lol.

 

Year before that @G08and I were driving the Mahomes train and Derrick Henry was a draft crush of mine, wanted to trade into the late first to get the 5th year option on him the year before. Easily the best 3 year stretch of drafts I have ever had, though some of my drafts before that would have had me unemployed prior to them. lol

Actually this forums pre draft ideas collectively have been vastly superior to reality.  
 

[Sugashane]

4 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Actually this forums pre draft ideas collectively have been vastly superior to reality.  
 

True, granted we aren't actually dealing with negotiations and the like as the real GM does, but it seems the goals are frequently set too low. Conservativism is better when you're sustaining rather than trying to build a franchise up IMO. Ignoring the obvious need for a franchise QB you need a few stud playmakers around the team and can build around them. GMs seem to assume they built a team up well enough that a stud is going to emerge or have another aberration like the "No Name Defense" come up. 

I found a pdf of Bill Walsh's Finding the Winning Edge years ago and right off the bat it went on about competition. Here's the part - 

Quote

In the football arena, competition not only involves winners and losers, it also serves as a meaningful opportunity for the development, exercise and expression of human excellence. In that regard, trying to win means attempting to do the best you can at all facets of the game. In other words, your focus should be on attempting to demonstrate excellence in all of the ways that the game calls for. Concurrently, your opponent's efforts to excel and to outperform you provide you with the opportunity to strive to do your best. 

To me this means you should provide an opportunity for competition at ALL levels, and it should be a daily experience for the players. Not just offense vs defense but against their own position groups. You may not be able to provide someone to really threaten to take a spot away from prime Kyle Long, Mack, Peppers, Urlacher, etc but you can damn well ensure they get humbled a little and ensure they don't regress due to you as a coach. I think a lot of GMs and coaches miss out on that due to ego. "I drafted him, I know he's going to lock that spot down for the next 4-10 years, now what's the next spot?" Instead they should be willing to challenge that player and their own evaluations. From training camp on there should be competition for starting spots almost across the board, but there should be competition to see who the best players are that are starting too, even if it is only weekly positional competitions. I think if this was done more the coaches could see the weaknesses as players separated themselves from their peers - good or bad. 

Urlacher talked about how one coach (Rivera? Maybe Babich?) had a competition to see who went to the correct spot and didn't make misreads from the game (false steps, not breaking down in coverage, etc), and they guy who constantly seemed to win was Hillenmeyer. Urlacher and Briggs were 10 times the players Hunter was but this gave them a chance to have to fight to win on the mental side and this kept Hunter completely invested too. Knowing you're beating two HOF talents has to be exhilarating. Lovie wasn't the rah-rah guy but he would tell Urlacher that "Briggs would have made that tackle" and stuff like that all the time too. Then when the players win let them have their moment because they earned it. 

What this all comes from is that I think this is why GMs often have such an underperforming group compared to what armchair GMs are coming up with. They are attached and assume that players will take major steps because they are so closely tied to that, whereas we are focused more on more objective (kinda loosely at times honestly) measurements to see if there is a better alternative needed. 

Ok, mini-rant over. lol