2022 Steelers Bye Week Thread

[August4th]

be nice to see what Kenny looked like in a functional offense with a run game. He's shown signs of a guy who can be a QB manager type, but not elite.

[MOSteelers56]

I think his deficiencies come out more because he's throwing it 50+ times a game. He should throw it no more than 35 times. Our run game is garbage so it'll never happen, but that's how it should happen. 

[August4th]

3 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I think his deficiencies come out more because he's throwing it 50+ times a game. He should throw it no more than 35 times. Our run game is garbage so it'll never happen, but that's how it should happen. 

the warts in bens game would pop up when he had games with 30+ attempts at the start of his career. remember the whole steelers are *insert bad record* talking point when ben threw 30+ during the 1st 3-4 yrs of his career. I think a young ben would have 5-8 turnovers in this current situation, but he'd also have more "wow" plays due to his physical ability

[43M]

1 hour ago, Dcash4 said:

Short answer for me, yes. But, ultimately depends on what you are judging it by. Neither of those guys in their rookie years played in notably better situations. I would say we are probably closer to even than you would think in terms of talent around them too. 

There's more to the conversation, but keeping things simplistic -- both of those guys showed early on that they could make NFL throws. We are still waiting to see Kenny just make a handful. Both of those guys have different styles, Trevor's arm can make NFL throws, Burrow relies on timing -- both of those were more advanced than Kenny. 

Kenny is playing way too much towards the negative side of his scouting report -- and those are also places those two beat him up pretty good. Burrow, to a fault, hangs in the pocket to look downfield. Kenny notoriously vacates clean pockets and it's already cost us this year. Trevor's arm isn't elite, but it's very strong and it showed early in his ability to complete passes 10+ yards down the field and that's vastly different than what we see with Kenny. 

The biggest question for comparison is our offensive game plan and play calling. Again, neither of those guys were in vastly better scenarios, but I would be willing to say that our plan is the worst. Those two through their first 4 starts answered more questions about their future than Kenny has to this point and most of that is because of the NFL throws they scattered in. But are we only throwing short because that's what we want to do? Not sure where the mix is there, because there are throws Kenny should be making that aren't happening. But it's hard to say if those guys in this offense make them. 

So while I don't think with Matt Canada as their coordinator that we would be seeing 300+, 3 TD, 1 INT games consistently with those two over Kenny - I do believe it would be noticeably different, and much more encouraging. Based on the issues we saw in these games and understanding those guys abilities, I would easily say either of them win us the Dolphins game and likely the Jets game as well. And that would be notably better. 

I will give you that they showed a bit more in regards to what they could do as rookies, but they were also much better prospects.

I do not agree, however, that Kenny hasnt shown the ability to make NFL throws.   The first couple weeks, I would have agreed, but the last 2 or 3 weeks, we have seen him showcase his arm talent a lot more.   Does he have the arm talent Lawrence has?   No, but not many do....but his arm strength isnt much less than Burrow.

And again, with poor playcalling and bad OLines, both Burrow and Lawrence have looked rather pedestrian, and not significantly better than Kenny.    Kennys numbers are ugly right now, but I feel they are much more reflective of the offense as a whole than simply him just not playing well.

[warfelg]

9 minutes ago, 43M said:

I do not agree, however, that Kenny hasnt shown the ability to make NFL throws.

This is going to become a quick sore point in talking about Kenny. Early his was sitting back and floating throws. This week he stepped into throws with some zip. I think too many people get caught up in the cannon arms to zip every throw. If Kenny starts to show some better anticipation on throws, gets the ball out earlier to a spot, the arm “concerns” will go away. Drew Brees never had the strongest arm but using his ability to throw a guy open by anticipating made some of those concerns go away. 

[3rivers]

58 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I think his deficiencies come out more because he's throwing it 50+ times a game. He should throw it no more than 35 times. Our run game is garbage so it'll never happen, but that's how it should happen. 

agree. They need a legit run game and most of all OC. Of course they need to make changes at RB and an improved OL too, so until then, Kenny will suffer and possible breakdown slowly either with injuries (like Luck) or from losing all the time and the media pressure (like many other RD1 QB 's over the history of the game)

 

12 minutes ago, warfelg said:

This week he stepped into throws with some zip. I think too many people get caught up in the cannon arms to zip every throw.

I agree. As long as the throw has a nice spiral and is on target in stride and out of reach of the defender, thats good .  Now if there is some separation between the defender and the WR that helps and if the WR won't drop the passes, that also help.  Having a decent OL pass pocket helps and Kenny has had help there  often enough for me to think the problem isn't so much Kenny, but other areas. Canada is a start, fire him asap unless they want to tank. As long as Canada is here, they are tanking IMO

Kenny's passes to Pickens seem perfect to me, and ask the defender. Most OC would throw more of those and build the offences passing attack around that , and Pickens would have 10+ receptions a game.  But we have the canada effect  and an overpaid WR that drops passes he should catch. 

[Steeler Hitman]

16 hours ago, 3rivers said:

Quote

SH - how about ILB Evans? We just missed him in the draft, finally bring him here .

I was not as high on Evans as I was with Vander Esch.  He would not be a bad fit at ILB, but he isn't Roquaan Smith either.  

 

Jaylen Warren’s Success Somewhat Situational, Says Matt Canada

Canada downplaying Warrens success?  Someone just fire this clown or at least give him covid

Whatever Matt Canada says or does will be scrutinized. I think he is saying that Warren probably would not have the same success as the feature back and I think this is an accurate statement/assessment.  That also doesn't mean he can't get more reps and touches. 

 

BoB is a major upgrade over canada, yet still not liked here. Haley>arians>BoB >canada 😂

remember when everyone here were sick of Haley and arians, well look at now.  Maybe tomlin can make this worse with his next OC, never know

BA liked the long ball and the OL was built to run and not pass block so Big Ben took a lot of sacks and even more hits.  Todd Haley had a great philosophy, but was a poor play caller and struggled at times to make adjustments after an opponent locked into what the offense was doing.  Build the OL.  Draft your franchise Center and LT. Improve the DL, and get an OC who can expand the offense and grow with and develop Kenny Pickett.   The blueprint is simple, but finding the right pieces is much tougher. 

[Dcash4]

28 minutes ago, 43M said:

I do not agree, however, that Kenny hasnt shown the ability to make NFL throws

The last two weeks on throws over 10 yards Kenny is 7/22 with 1 TD and 4 INTs. Agree to disagree here. 

18 minutes ago, warfelg said:

This is going to become a quick sore point in talking about Kenny

It may get old, but it's also not wrong. The reasons you hear concerns about QB arm strength is because it means you have to play perfect. You don't have the room to be late or slow or have inconsistencies outside of set process. Arm strength allows you to get away with problems and they are problems Kenny is having right now.

24 minutes ago, warfelg said:

If Kenny starts to show some better anticipation on throws, gets the ball out earlier to a spot, the arm “concerns” will go away.

This is true....it's also very difficult specifically when it's a known issue. I am just now sure why you would put concerns in quotations like its made up. It's a legit concern, because if he doesn't learn to play perfect, this doesn't work. 

Like the Brees comparison is an accurate one for arm strength, but even in the height of his career you often find him around the top of interception leaders because that arm had limitations. 

This is just such a huge IF. This isn't physical, it's not footwork, it's not arm slot -- it's fixing his brain to process faster. That's a huge ask, especially for someone that is already 24 and seen a ton of football. 

[warfelg]

15 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

I am just now sure why you would put concerns in quotations like its made up. It's a legit concern, because if he doesn't learn to play perfect, this doesn't work. 

It's a "concern" for me because it's easily fixable in another offensive system.  Canada's system is doing no favors for any player right now.

Just like KP's first two starts there were ugly interceptions based on poor decision making.  That's improved.  His INT this week was more a great play from a LBer who got up to tip it.  I think that's one KP will learn to loop in a little more rather than frozen rope it.  Keep in mind, outside of Pickens, he has not worked (relatively) all that much with this offensive group.  You can still see the numerous communication issues between KP and DJ, Claypool (pre-trade), heck even the OL.  I don't have brand faith it's going to work out, but continually harping on this concern is what can send us in a Browns like QB spiral because you are chasing an ideal. 

[43M]

1 hour ago, Dcash4 said:

The last two weeks on throws over 10 yards Kenny is 7/22 with 1 TD and 4 INTs. Agree to disagree here.

You are free to feel how you want about Kenny, but this is a weak argument that blatantly ignores context.  

Numerous throws were us trying to play catch up and Kenny trying to take shots downfield to players that werent open in an effort to loosen up the defense.      We have no running game to open things up downfield, and we know Canada isnt scheming WRs open.     He has inarguably made some poor decisions and throws in there, but just blindly posting stats doesnt prove anything when you dont actually take the time to understand what has led to those numbers.

And I am still trying to understand how guys like Burrow and Lawrence would be much better when they have been in similarly bad situations, and in reality, HAVENT been much better.      These were significantly higher graded prospects that were supposedly much more pro ready, and they are struggling in poor offensive systems and behind poor lines.    Even if they have showed more flashes, they havent been consistently better.    Both have made a bunch of mental errors and there teams arent making it easier on them.     If they deserve a pass, so does Kenny.    I am not saying he should have excuses made for him, and I understand there are concerns, but he has shown alot of good things in a very bad situation.    

I was never a big fan of Pickett and I wont be shocked if we are looking for a new QB in a couple years, so it would be easy for me to rag on him for poor stats...but watching him doesnt make me immediately think "Yep, I knew it was a mistake drafting him!".    When I watch him I think "He is rough around the edges, but he has shown he has tools to work with, even if they arent elite tools.   In a better situation, I think he would be much more effective."

Bottom line:    Im giving Kenny AT LEAST the entire 2023 season to prove himself, regardless of how he looks this year.    I am 99.999999% sure Canada will be gone, and the offensive line will add more talent.     If he doesnt show notable improvement next season, then I would be looking for a new QB in 2024.      Until Canada and his abysmal offensive system is gone, Im not going to crap over the talent much.  

[Dcash4]

17 minutes ago, warfelg said:

It's a "concern" for me because it's easily fixable in another offensive system

No, it is not. Fixing the way your brain processes things and the speed at which it does it is not easily corrected. A point and click system can help, but again -- it goes back to needing to be perfect. 

20 minutes ago, warfelg said:

but continually harping on this concern is what can send us

This sounds like you want to sweep it under the rug and ignore it rather than talk about legit concerns. 

I am rewatching the Eagles game right now. I am only on our first drive and there are major flows in his thought process, instincts, and reaction time that have nothing to do with system.  There's a play where he hits Freiermuth up the seam and it's a nice chunk, but for the life of me I can't figure out why it takes him so long to throw it. Almost two second count from when he switches to the read and releases the football. And it's WIDE OPEN. He adds an extra hitch while he stares at it. He gets away with it because of how open Pat is, but this is far more exception than rule here. 

On the next possession he could easily have thrown 2 picks in 3 throws. One because he is massively late again on DJ coming back, the other because he doesn't see an ILB and sails it high to Muth. The following series is the one we have all probably seen right now where Pickens has a TD and a step, but he throws back shoulder. 

I don't need ideal, but if you hitch yourself up to a person who is physically limited, you can't have limitation on the mental stuff -- and he is showing those limitations. It's not that it can't get better, but they are known issues and realistically we are talking minor improvements. 

[August4th]

 

[AFF]

Just now, August4th said:

 

[warfelg]

4 games in with a crap OC.  Call curtains on his career.

[warfelg]

3 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

you can't have limitation on the mental stuff -- and he is showing those limitations.

Great assessment of Matt Canada.