vike daddy Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 1 hour ago, LionArkie said: We don't really follow gameplans. Michael David Smith@MichaelDavSmith The multi-decade rebuilding cycle for the Lions alternates between telling the fans they have to be patient because they have good players who just need time to develop, and telling fans they have to be patient because they traded away those players for draft picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nnivolcm Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Karnage84 said: The trade doesn't make a ton of sense to me. We're trading him in division and are giving up picks in the process? You have to really hope your evaluation on him as a player is correct otherwise he's going to torch us twice a year for a while. Minnesota's offense is already filled with play makers. They will continue to be as good as Cousins allows them to be with or without Hockenson. This trade is pretty close to best case scenario for me. Hock isn't worth the contract he's going to get and I expect the Lions to spend a lot of money in 2024 FA so they likely wouldn't get a comp pick for losing him. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 13 minutes ago, vike daddy said: Michael David Smith@MichaelDavSmith The multi-decade rebuilding cycle for the Lions alternates between telling the fans they have to be patient because they have good players who just need time to develop, and telling fans they have to be patient because they traded away those players for draft picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_shadows Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 I figured it out, this is an IOU to the Vikings for the draft day trade that was so cheap to move up. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 Just now, rob_shadows said: I figured it out, this is an IOU to the Vikings for the draft day trade that was so cheap to move up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagahide13 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 5 hours ago, SteelKing728 said: I get why your team made this move. I think it was a good idea to do it now. I wonder what the gameplan is now to replace him? Probably to draft a TE #2 overall while passing on several generational talents. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagahide13 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 3 hours ago, Karnage84 said: This crossed my mind. I do think that it's very likely the two guys have a good relationship and find it easy to work together. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lions017 Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 I'm fine with trading Hockenson. I always got the vibe that the front office wasn't going to commit big money to the TE position anyway, and Hockenson, while being a good player, never quite developed into what we hoped. His blocking has been shockingly quite poor the last couple of years and he just seemed a bit inconsistent. At the same time, I do wish we had received a different return. The 2nd rounder is nice, but it was weird to just upgrade picks and not acquire any extra picks. We clearly still need to add a ton of talent to the roster. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted November 2, 2022 Author Share Posted November 2, 2022 57 minutes ago, Lions017 said: I'm fine with trading Hockenson. I always got the vibe that the front office wasn't going to commit big money to the TE position anyway, and Hockenson, while being a good player, never quite developed into what we hoped. His blocking has been shockingly quite poor the last couple of years and he just seemed a bit inconsistent. At the same time, I do wish we had received a different return. The 2nd rounder is nice, but it was weird to just upgrade picks and not acquire any extra picks. We clearly still need to add a ton of talent to the roster. Agreed. It seems like a second alone should have got it done. No need for the other picks, maybe a conditional pick if they didn't pick up his 5th year option but like a 5th or 6th next year. That being said, you mentioned he was a bad blocker the last couple of years (one of the worst in the league graded by PFF) and his receiving numbers through the same number of games are similar to Pettigrew. So the fact we got what we did was a solid get. People still hype him as the best TE prospect in forever top 10 pick and he never amounted to that. Maybe it was lack of use and focus in the gameplan but he needed to do more to force us to go his way and call his number. He does have good peripheral numbers like drop % and catch radius but he also doesnt get open as much as guys like Andrews and Kelce. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted November 2, 2022 Author Share Posted November 2, 2022 I hear he was close to an extension and kept pushing for top 5 TE money and our staff didn't want to invest that into a non premium position. That would put him over $14.25M per year to be top 5 and the way contracts work, I am guessing he was pushing for over $15M. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 52 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: I hear he was close to an extension and kept pushing for top 5 TE money and our staff didn't want to invest that into a non premium position. That would put him over $14.25M per year to be top 5 and the way contracts work, I am guessing he was pushing for over $15M. Which makes a lot of sense on why they would trade a guy who wasn't contributing much as a blocker, wasn't a key part of the overall gameplan and didn't add enough to the team to warrant paying big big money like that. We're also shaving off $9.4M next year which certainly isn't nothing. My biggest issue/gripe with the trade is that it went to a division rival. On a lesser note, we are only two games back from being #2 in the division and potentially have a shot to compete for the division if we can get the defense turned around. It sounds crazy to say it at 1-6 but it's not an impossible task if the offense was able to compete at a top 10 level and the defense started to make plays and not let up over 25 points per game. One thing that I loved and I think it endeared us to Campbell and co. was that they were always competing and fighting hard. Trading Hock now seems like they're taking a step back and looking forward to 2023. Maybe they're being realistic and understand the talent deficiencies (especially on defense) but it just seems off brand to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted November 2, 2022 Author Share Posted November 2, 2022 6 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: Which makes a lot of sense on why they would trade a guy who wasn't contributing much as a blocker, wasn't a key part of the overall gameplan and didn't add enough to the team to warrant paying big big money like that. We're also shaving off $9.4M next year which certainly isn't nothing. My biggest issue/gripe with the trade is that it went to a division rival. On a lesser note, we are only two games back from being #2 in the division and potentially have a shot to compete for the division if we can get the defense turned around. It sounds crazy to say it at 1-6 but it's not an impossible task if the offense was able to compete at a top 10 level and the defense started to make plays and not let up over 25 points per game. One thing that I loved and I think it endeared us to Campbell and co. was that they were always competing and fighting hard. Trading Hock now seems like they're taking a step back and looking forward to 2023. Maybe they're being realistic and understand the talent deficiencies (especially on defense) but it just seems off brand to me. It may look worse to us and media than it does internally. Maybe he was starting to cause issues and wasnt buying in anymore. He did recently make a comment that he wanted to be a bigger part of the game plan, which I get, but if he was not going about it right maybe he forced his way out. Obviously the Lions know they are in a tough spot but a couple of years ago the Dolphins were 0-7 and turned things around finishing 5-4 after some moves were made, including trading away Minkah Fitzpatrick. Maybe we are hoping for something similar. As for moving him to a division rival, it doesn't really bother me. A TE, especially one we are familiar with, won't be the only reason we lose to the Vikings. Give me the best package possible no matter who it is. The Vikings are going to have to figure out paying Hock, JJ, and a QB after 2023. He is either hurting their cap or not on their team after next year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Want A Title Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 Obviously hindsight is 20-20. Hockenson is a solid TE but not at the level of a Travis Kelce or Mark Andrews. I think Dalton Schultz is a more consistent contributor in the passing game also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagahide13 Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 24 minutes ago, Just Want A Title said: Obviously hindsight is 20-20. Hockenson is a solid TE but not at the level of a Travis Kelce or Mark Andrews. I think Dalton Schultz is a more consistent contributor in the passing game also. Zach Ertz is probably the best comp I can think of at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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