OT Marcus Gilbert suspended - PED

[43M]

Little bit off topic, but part of me is hoping we get rid of Foster this offseason to let Finney play.   He is definitely better IMO and plays with a mean streak no one else on this line plays with.

I would present something else Id consider as well, but it would probably anger some Steeler fans and I dont feel like getting into it right now.  

[MOSteelers56]

15 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Little bit off topic, but part of me is hoping we get rid of Foster this offseason to let Finney play.   He is definitely better IMO and plays with a mean streak no one else on this line plays with.

I would present something else Id consider as well, but it would probably anger some Steeler fans and I dont feel like getting into it right now.  

You can't just tease something like that, 43. 

I kind of agree about Finney. We would miss Foster's leadership but we would improve the overall athleticism by quite a bit. 

[jebrick]

Hubbard has always been the extra OL this year except for when he started

[warfelg]

1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said:

You can't just tease something like that, 43. 

I kind of agree about Finney. We would miss Foster's leadership but we would improve the overall athleticism by quite a bit. 

I think @FourThreeMafia would be getting at moving on from Pouncey.

[MOSteelers56]

14 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I think @FourThreeMafia would be getting at moving on from Pouncey.

I don't mind that either but unfortunately we don't have an adequate replacement for Sir Pounce.   

[JLambert58]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

I think @FourThreeMafia would be getting at moving on from Pouncey.

Let's replace just one lineman at a time.  I agree that Finney can be better than Foster.  Don't know how you measure intangibles such as leadership, but I'd rather have a better player in there.  Bell has consistently good/great games when Finney plays.  Foster will be 32 in January, time to move on from him soon.  

[CKSteeler]

Pouncey isn't exactly the most popular guy among Steelers fans. At least no on this or most boards I've seen.

Foster is there because he's been a team guy and a leader on the team. When Finney gets on the field, he's just been the better player. Which doesn't even mean Foster's been bad. Finney looks like a very good player who would start for most of the league.

[Chieferific]

Am I the only one to think Foster's leadership is being slightly exaggerated here?

[43M]

I want Finney to replace Foster because he is younger, better and if we dont start him here, he will move on soon and we will be looking for Fosters replacement at the same time.

And yes, I want to replace Pouncey.   I dont even dislike Mo.  I was one of his biggest fans coming out of school and Ive always had a soft spot for him.  However, he has never been as good as Id hoped he'd be coming out, and even though he is definitely a solid-good center, he is being paid like he is elite, and he certainly is not that.   Im not sure if dumping him next offseason could help us keep Bell or not, but if it could, I would do it.   Im not entirely sold on paying Bell the money he wants either, but keeping him might entice Ben to stay on for the next couple years and keep our contender hopes going for a few more years while we find a capable young QB to take over in the meantime, and by the time Bell's big money really kicks in, Ben will be retired.

Bottom line, I just feel like Pouncey, while good, is replaceable, especially with the money he makes.    Not saying whoever we got would immediately be just as good, but I trust Munchack to get the most out of any OLineman we bring in.    

[Chieferific]

24 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

I want Finney to replace Foster because he is younger, better and if we dont start him here, he will move on soon and we will be looking for Fosters replacement at the same time.

And yes, I want to replace Pouncey.   I dont even dislike Mo.  I was one of his biggest fans coming out of school and Ive always had a soft spot for him.  However, he has never been as good as Id hoped he'd be coming out, and even though he is definitely a solid-good center, he is being paid like he is elite, and he certainly is not that.   Im not sure if dumping him next offseason could help us keep Bell or not, but if it could, I would do it.   Im not entirely sold on paying Bell the money he wants either, but keeping him might entice Ben to stay on for the next couple years and keep our contender hopes going for a few more years while we find a capable young QB to take over in the meantime, and by the time Bell's big money really kicks in, Ben will be retired.

Bottom line, I just feel like Pouncey, while good, is replaceable, especially with the money he makes.    Not saying whoever we got would immediately be just as good, but I trust Munchack to get the most out of any OLineman we bring in.    

Agree Pouncey is better than good but not great. His cap hit is approx $10.5 Million next year.  I think there would be like $3.5 Million Dead Money if he was a post June 1st cut. Those capologists can correct if if I'm wrong (I'm not a cap guy but I read it somewhere). So is the $7 Million savings worth it? I guess it would depend on the replacement and replacement cost. Unless you put Finney there but now a similar problem arises with Foster. Maybe make MP a post June cut a draft an early RD OC? I know Price for OSU has a 1st Rd grade. Are we in a place where taking an OC in the 1st Rd is a good idea? I have more questions than answers. Too many variables. 

[Big Snack]

Swapping out foster for finney is a move I think helps going forward. moving on from pounce at this time I am not on board with for a couple reasons. Not too long ago this unit was a mess and held back the entire team on sundays. now that we have a good group of talent and a great position coach it could be argued as top 5 unit in the league. if we were to move on from pouncey and swap out finney that is a lot of change over on a very good group and too much for my liking. add to the fact that gilbert is now 1 hot test from a year suspension and we could be looking at having 3 new pieces to the line next year albeit finney is a lateral at worst imo. still that is way more change than I am wanting to see take  place.

[JLambert58]

11 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

I want Finney to replace Foster because he is younger, better and if we dont start him here, he will move on soon and we will be looking for Fosters replacement at the same time.

And yes, I want to replace Pouncey.   I dont even dislike Mo.  I was one of his biggest fans coming out of school and Ive always had a soft spot for him.  However, he has never been as good as Id hoped he'd be coming out, and even though he is definitely a solid-good center, he is being paid like he is elite, and he certainly is not that.   Im not sure if dumping him next offseason could help us keep Bell or not, but if it could, I would do it.   Im not entirely sold on paying Bell the money he wants either, but keeping him might entice Ben to stay on for the next couple years and keep our contender hopes going for a few more years while we find a capable young QB to take over in the meantime, and by the time Bell's big money really kicks in, Ben will be retired.

Bottom line, I just feel like Pouncey, while good, is replaceable, especially with the money he makes.    Not saying whoever we got would immediately be just as good, but I trust Munchack to get the most out of any OLineman we bring in.    

Ok, I get that he's paid a lot.  But think back on the last 8 years.  How many times have you been watching a game and gotten upset that Pouncey was schooled?  Not many that I can remember.  It's like a cornerback, when you don't hear his name all game, he's doing a good job.  Pouncey is GOOD and a very solid part of our offense, why would you want to mess with that?  

I'm totally on board with Finney at LG, but after seeing Finney play center in Pouncey's absence vs. Cleveland in last year's reg season finale, it was clear that while you could probably get away with having someone average at C, you really wouldn't want to.  And to top it off, Ben loves the guy.  I say keep him until Ben rides off into the sunset, then talk about the next Center.   

[43M]

16 minutes ago, JLambert58 said:

Ok, I get that he's paid a lot.  But think back on the last 8 years.  How many times have you been watching a game and gotten upset that Pouncey was schooled?  Not many that I can remember. 

Depends how you define "schooled".   He gets beat quite often, and sometimes badly.    Sometimes he gets bailed out for some reason or another, whether its Ben getting rid of the ball before taking a sack or maybe a RB hitting a different gap.   

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It's like a cornerback, when you don't hear his name all game, he's doing a good job. 

Not really.   A CB, with the footage we normally see, its hard to get a gauge on how good they are really doing.    You can see everything lineman do on every play.  Its much easier to gauge an OLineman than a DB.   Obviously, its easy to see know when either are playing terribly, but OLineman are in view much more and thus, easier to judge.   

With an OLineman, if you arent hearing their name, they might be doing a good job....or just merely serviceable.    No one is claiming he is Sean Mahan, but he isnt the all world center some Steeler fans make him out to be.  

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Pouncey is GOOD and a very solid part of our offense, why would you want to mess with that? 

Because Im looking at the bigger picture....not just the fact that he is a solid player.

Im looking at what we are paying him relative to how good he actually is, and what that means going forward.  

Do I want to get rid of Pouncey in genera?  No.   Even with his issues, he is still a consistently solid/good player.

Would I cut him if it meant signing Bell long term?  Without hesitation.    Pouncey is overpaid, somewhat overrated and easier to replace than everything Bell brings to the table considering his running, blocking and receiving out of the backfield.     

Quote

I'm totally on board with Finney at LG, but after seeing Finney play center in Pouncey's absence vs. Cleveland in last year's reg season finale, it was clear that while you could probably get away with having someone average at C, you really wouldn't want to.  And to top it off, Ben loves the guy.  I say keep him until Ben rides off into the sunset, then talk about the next Center.   

Its not going to happen.  I never suggested it WOULD.    Im just claiming what I would be willing to do to keep Bell.   

Id rather keep Bell for Ben's remaining years than Pouncey.   It would be far easier to at least come close to replacing what Pouncey brings than it would replacing everything Bell does.

In the end, however, Bell will walk, Pouncey will stay and continue to be overpaid, and we will roll with Conner and probably a versatile FA RB like Dion Lewis, as we try to replace Bell's departure with numerous players, but it wont work out nearly as well.  

[JLambert58]

1 hour ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Depends how you define "schooled".   He gets beat quite often, and sometimes badly.    Sometimes he gets bailed out for some reason or another, whether its Ben getting rid of the ball before taking a sack or maybe a RB hitting a different gap.   

I disagree that he gets beat often.  Every lineman in the league gets beat sometimes.  How many times has he bailed out other guys getting beat?  Plenty.  He's probably the most athletic center in all of football. 

1 hour ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Not really.   A CB, with the footage we normally see, its hard to get a gauge on how good they are really doing.    You can see everything lineman do on every play.  Its much easier to gauge an OLineman than a DB.   Obviously, its easy to see know when either are playing terribly, but OLineman are in view much more and thus, easier to judge.   

Didn't say it wasn't easier to gauge the play of OL as compared to a CB.  That' obvious.  What I said was:   No news is good news.  When I guy is not getting called out or making an obvious mistake, he can go unnoticed - much like a CB. 

1 hour ago, FourThreeMafia said:

With an OLineman, if you arent hearing their name, they might be doing a good job....or just merely serviceable.    No one is claiming he is Sean Mahan, but he isnt the all world center some Steeler fans make him out to be.  

You did not just mention Sean Mahan.    Pouney's made 5 pro bowls, that does not happen by chance, luck or even reputation.   It can be argued we lost the SB against GB because he wasn't available to play. 

1 hour ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Because Im looking at the bigger picture....not just the fact that he is a solid player.

Im looking at what we are paying him relative to how good he actually is, and what that means going forward.  

Fair enough.  I think that's your best point.  He's got a big contract and yes, that prohibits other signings.  Is he worth it?  I say yes, you say no.  There's the rub. 

1 hour ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Do I want to get rid of Pouncey in genera?  No.   Even with his issues, he is still a consistently solid/good player.

Would I cut him if it meant signing Bell long term?  Without hesitation.    Pouncey is overpaid, somewhat overrated and easier to replace than everything Bell brings to the table considering his running, blocking and receiving out of the backfield.     

You mean signing a big contract to a guy who hasn't proven he can stay healthy in the playoffs?  Everyone likes to cry about how much our zone defense sucks.  Very rarely do we (collectively) talk about how Bell getting hurt in that game easily could have turned the tide in the AFCCG.  Yeah, Pouncey's been hurt some, but durability is a major factor in calling someone an ELITE back.  Not to mention, he's getting a full yard less per carry than last year.  (not a trend we want to see)

1 hour ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Its not going to happen.  I never suggested it WOULD.    Im just claiming what I would be willing to do to keep Bell.   

Id rather keep Bell for Ben's remaining years than Pouncey.   It would be far easier to at least come close to replacing what Pouncey brings than it would replacing everything Bell does.

I agree that Bell is a huge impact player WHEN he is at his best.   He's only one injury from having another disappointing end to his season, not to mention: a few failed drug tests away from a year long suspension.  Would I love to keep him?  Yes, but he is far from a sure thing over the next 3 years.  I'd rather wait and see if he stay healthy for every playoff game first. 

1 hour ago, FourThreeMafia said:

In the end, however, Bell will walk, Pouncey will stay and continue to be overpaid, and we will roll with Conner and probably a versatile FA RB like Dion Lewis, as we try to replace Bell's departure with numerous players, but it wont work out nearly as well.  

Bell will get tagged most likely for one more year or signed to a team-friendly, front-loaded contract.  If/When Bell leaves, we will most likely be looking at a 1st or 2nd round pick as his replacement.  Given how uneven the running game has been this year, I think we will be able to find a suitable replacement.  (even someone the caliber of DeAngelo Williams would work)

[Alex]

Here's an idea.

We are without Gilbert for games and we most certainly need Finney in there for few games.

Shift Ramon Foster to RT and play Finney at LG.

I mean, Ramon Foster was our original right tackle and he most certainly can play the position. This ought to be much better for the running game. Le'Veon Bell would have wet dreams.