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How are the rookies doing?


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2 minutes ago, Just Want A Title said:

Given Romeo Okwara's pass-rushing skills, a post June-1 trade doesn't seem out of the question.  He might be surprsingly valuable to a team that wants to load up for a playoff run.

I feel like we'd make this trade pre-June 1st. Eat more of the cap now but get better compensation in order to do so. Holmes has shown he can be deadly with picks, so even if we can get a 4th or a 5th for absorbing $3-4M as opposed to a 6th or 7th will pay off much better for us. 

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5 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

I feel like we'd make this trade pre-June 1st. Eat more of the cap now but get better compensation in order to do so. Holmes has shown he can be deadly with picks, so even if we can get a 4th or a 5th for absorbing $3-4M as opposed to a 6th or 7th will pay off much better for us. 

I don't know how accurate this is but the difference between a pre-June 1st move and a post-June 1st move is significant.  Injuries during the off-season on a team looking to make a playoff run could improve his value.

https://overthecap.com/player/romeo-okwara/5296

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  • 2 weeks later...

Aidan was double teamed more than any other player in the league.

https://lionswire.usatoday.com/2023/01/16/aidan-hutchinson-lions-pass-rush-double-team-rate-nfl-2022-next-gen-stats/

I would love to see another high end DL, Jalen Carter, Myles Murphy to help out and make teams pay for the double team. I feel like this D is getting really close to being good.

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2 hours ago, LionArkie said:

Aidan was double teamed more than any other player in the league.

https://lionswire.usatoday.com/2023/01/16/aidan-hutchinson-lions-pass-rush-double-team-rate-nfl-2022-next-gen-stats/

I would love to see another high end DL, Jalen Carter, Myles Murphy to help out and make teams pay for the double team. I feel like this D is getting really close to being good.

Me too. If mocks have the Eagles adding to their DL I don't see why there's the thought we can't do the same. 

Houston is a situational pass-rusher, Cominsky and Paschal have versatility and can play inside. Add another high end guy to the mix and we'd have one of the better units in the league. Aidan has proven to be a high end player already. Get someone legitimate of him on the other end and imagine how much more damage he could do. 

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5 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

Me too. If mocks have the Eagles adding to their DL I don't see why there's the thought we can't do the same. 

Houston is a situational pass-rusher, Cominsky and Paschal have versatility and can play inside. Add another high end guy to the mix and we'd have one of the better units in the league. Aidan has proven to be a high end player already. Get someone legitimate of him on the other end and imagine how much more damage he could do. 

At this point in time, I think my 1A and 1B are Carter and Murphy respectively. I'd be good with either one at 6 (if either are there). Then fill out the back 7 with young talent and throw in a young G and I'd be happy as a clam with the draft.

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9 minutes ago, LionArkie said:

At this point in time, I think my 1A and 1B are Carter and Murphy respectively. I'd be good with either one at 6 (if either are there). Then fill out the back 7 with young talent and throw in a young G and I'd be happy as a clam with the draft.

I haven't looked at 2021 stats or how some of the guys have been used in terms of scheme. Murphy is interesting. Freak athlete. Big body. He has a 10% pressure rate vs Tyree Wilson who has a 19.16% pressure rate. Big 12 and ACC might be different in terms of overall competition, but double? 

I've mocked Murphy to us a bunch of times too but it's certainly something that is a concern to me. I'm wondering if he's more about potential vs production. 

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3 hours ago, LionArkie said:

Aidan was double teamed more than any other player in the league.

https://lionswire.usatoday.com/2023/01/16/aidan-hutchinson-lions-pass-rush-double-team-rate-nfl-2022-next-gen-stats/

I would love to see another high end DL, Jalen Carter, Myles Murphy to help out and make teams pay for the double team. I feel like this D is getting really close to being good.

We will probably be in a position to take Tyree Wilson or Myles Murpy at 6 but what would help the most is a DT who commands double-teams.  Isaiah Bugs was better than expected but he isn't necessarily a "game-wrecker".  Alim McNeil has become a pretty good DT but he hasn't been consistently disruptive in the passing game.  He had a great game against the Giants but they were playing their back-up guards if I remember correctly.  Other than Jalen Carter and maybe Brian Brisee there isn't a complete DT prospect out there.  There are a bunch of players who seem like good role players with some upside.  Maybe that is enough to push our interior D-Line forward.

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2 minutes ago, Just Want A Title said:

We will probably be in a position to take Tyree Wilson or Myles Murpy at 6 but what would help the most is a DT who commands double-teams.  Isaiah Bugs was better than expected but he isn't necessarily a "game-wrecker".  Alim McNeil has become a pretty good DT but he hasn't been consistently disruptive in the passing game.  He had a great game against the Giants but they were playing their back-up guards if I remember correctly.  Other than Jalen Carter and maybe Brian Brisee there isn't a complete DT prospect out there.  There are a bunch of players who seem like good role players with some upside.  Maybe that is enough to push our interior D-Line forward.

  • Karl Brooks (17.78% pressure rate) at 6'4, 300 lbs
  • Tyler Davis (11.73% pressure rate) at 6'2, 300 lbs
  • Keondre Coburn (12.25% pressure rate) at 6'2, 343 lbs
  • Keeanu Benton (12.39% pressure rate) at 6'4, 315 lbs

These are a couple interior guys that could be alternatives to Carter. Brooks played a ton on the Edge standing up, so he could be a very versatile piece. Coburn is a big body dude that's going to plug up the middle. 

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14 minutes ago, Just Want A Title said:

We will probably be in a position to take Tyree Wilson or Myles Murpy at 6 but what would help the most is a DT who commands double-teams.  Isaiah Bugs was better than expected but he isn't necessarily a "game-wrecker".  Alim McNeil has become a pretty good DT but he hasn't been consistently disruptive in the passing game.  He had a great game against the Giants but they were playing their back-up guards if I remember correctly.  Other than Jalen Carter and maybe Brian Brisee there isn't a complete DT prospect out there.  There are a bunch of players who seem like good role players with some upside.  Maybe that is enough to push our interior D-Line forward.

Agreed. However, I want the best overall prospect and I think Murphy will be greater than any DT outside of Carter. Another DT I like a lot is Siaki Ika out of Baylor, *but more so to shut down the run. I think he is going to command a lot of double teams and hopefully available in the 2nd.
 

*edited for clarity.

Edited by LionArkie
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46 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

I haven't looked at 2021 stats or how some of the guys have been used in terms of scheme. Murphy is interesting. Freak athlete. Big body. He has a 10% pressure rate vs Tyree Wilson who has a 19.16% pressure rate. Big 12 and ACC might be different in terms of overall competition, but double? 

I've mocked Murphy to us a bunch of times too but it's certainly something that is a concern to me. I'm wondering if he's more about potential vs production. 

Even though he is showing up high in a lot of mocks, I honestly haven't looked a lot at Wilson. I've read Murphy has a real high motor and has that "grit" factor. If that is true and combined with his athleticism, he'd be one of my favorites in the draft.

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13 minutes ago, LionArkie said:

Another DT I like a lot is Siaki Ika out of Baylor

I also really like him but I have questions. For a dude that size, playing in Big 12 he has a 69.1 PFF score against the run. He's also below average in this class for Stops. I'd like to dig into it more and figure out if this is a one year thing. 

I know PFF is not the end all be all, but it does raise some concerns that I'd want to dig into.

Edited by Karnage84
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4 hours ago, Karnage84 said:
  • Karl Brooks (17.78% pressure rate) at 6'4, 300 lbs
  • Tyler Davis (11.73% pressure rate) at 6'2, 300 lbs
  • Keondre Coburn (12.25% pressure rate) at 6'2, 343 lbs
  • Keeanu Benton (12.39% pressure rate) at 6'4, 315 lbs

These are a couple interior guys that could be alternatives to Carter. Brooks played a ton on the Edge standing up, so he could be a very versatile piece. Coburn is a big body dude that's going to plug up the middle. 

Karl Brooks is making a huge jump in competition and that carries a lot of risk.  It is hard for me to get a read on Tyler Davis because he played on a D-Line loaded with talent.  Keeanu Benton strikes me as a very pro-ready prospect and could probably come in and log significant snaps at DT as a rookie . 

The player that I am most curious about is Gervon Dexter.  He already NFL strong, has good length and moves a lot better than you might think for someone his size.  The problem is that he has been playing as a DE in a really wonky scheme for Florida.  He was asked to do a lot of contain rather than attack.  He could really surprise in a more conventional DT role but I am not sure where he is at with respect to his development.

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1 minute ago, Just Want A Title said:

Karl Brooks is making a huge jump in competition and that carries a lot of risk.  Keeanu Benton strikes me as a very pro-ready prospect and could probably come in and log significant snaps at DT as a rookie . 

The player that I am most curious about is Gervon Dexter.  He already NFL strong, has good length and moves a lot better than you might think for someone his size.  The problem is that he has been playing as a DE in a really wonky scheme for Florida.  He was asked to do a lot of contain rather than attack.  He could really surprise in a more conventional DT role but I am not sure where he is at with respect to his development.

  • Brooks: It does but we have seen guys make that jump from even lower levels of competition. It's good to see him dominate his level of competition. Whether that can translate is yet to be seen.
  • Dexter: 560 of his snaps are at DLT, NT or DRT. He had 107 snaps at LE/RE. Maybe it's how the Gators line up or how PFF allotted his snaps, etc. but that's how PFF has the snap count listed
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1 minute ago, Karnage84 said:
  • Brooks: It does but we have seen guys make that jump from even lower levels of competition. It's good to see him dominate his level of competition. Whether that can translate is yet to be seen.
  • Dexter: 560 of his snaps are at DLT, NT or DRT. He had 107 snaps at LE/RE. Maybe it's how the Gators line up or how PFF allotted his snaps, etc. but that's how PFF has the snap count listed

If I remember correctly the Gators play some flavor of a 3-3-5 defense.  Their scheme didn't work well at all this year.  It just seems like they didn't know how to use Gervon Dexter correctly.

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6 minutes ago, Just Want A Title said:

If I remember correctly the Gators play some flavor of a 3-3-5 defense.  Their scheme didn't work well at all this year.  It just seems like they didn't know how to use Gervon Dexter correctly.

This was a handful of snaps, so I can't say this is definitive proof of anything. Just an observation. 

I watched some clips of the Tennessee game. 

Dexter is lined up at DRT (4 on the line) while Justus Boone (#12), a 6'4, 260 lbs RsFr Edge is lined up at RE. The first snap he dropped back in coverage and he was rushing on a few others. 

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