Jump to content

2022 GDT Da Steelers 2-6 Host Da Saints 3-6


Steeler Hitman

Recommended Posts

7 hours ago, jebrick said:

But he is not making tackles.  I could get a 3rd or 4th round banger LB to do that.  Too many plays he is STANDING near the ball carrier when someone else has tackled him.

Of course we could easily upgrade him I’m just saying I wouldn’t be livid if he came back on a very cheap deal, we ran the Jack/Bush duo back, and focused our resources on OL, CB, DL etc. Assuming his head is in the right place of course.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

Matt Canada still sucks, but this is a three man route with three open receivers all taking chunks.

Blind squirrels and nuts. 

In regards to what's in the tweet, Ben's forgotten more about football than any of us would ever know, but I find this comment (of his two 'missed throw' comments) kinda disingenuous. First off Ben know's the first 10-20 plays are scripted. Which likely means they are looking for a specific thing out of this.

Beyond that, if you look at the 0:06-0:07 second mark the MOF Safety opened his hips.  Makes that throw to Diontae a 50/50 most likely.  The LB sat on the left (for Kenny) hash as well when both crossers went behind him.  That look to Pickens is the right look, Kenny just made a bad throw.

This lay speaks so well to my question of what the issue is though.  Two extremely rounded off routes, if one is supposed to be a crosser it's with a constant drifting away from the LOS, and if it's supposed to be a pick play Sims and Pickens got no where in place to run it right.  So was the play designed to have the two WR's cross that deep with rounded off routes like that? If so poor design, make it a levels with the crossing and put the MOF S and MIKE into a depth decision and make that window easy to see.  Or was that play meant to have a harder cut and WR running on a rope?  If so one of the WR's (Sims or Pickens) did not run the right route.

Though this play just is another look at my issue with Kenny's double clutching.  If you pause at the top of Kenny's drop, the play hasn't finished developing.  Like he's planted, the two crossers haven't crossed yet, and DJ is step for step with his man while the MOF S is breaking on DJ already.  So Kenny takes two hitches while Pickens and Sims finish their crossers.  Now, yes, part of this argument could be Kenny needs to anticipate throw it a little more as they are making the cross, but from a defense perspective DeMario Davis plays this perfectly to break either way.  This play should have either been a 9 step drop from under center or had a play action element to it allowing the play to develop more so Kenny can hit that top of the drop and fire it off.

The blind squirrel part to me is both Harris and Freiermuth released forcing the WILL and SAM to come downhill.  If they don't do that, those LB's are sitting back and everyone is double covered.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

First off Ben know's the first 10-20 plays are scripted. Which likely means they are looking for a specific thing out of this.

Scripted plays or not, there are still reads. That's where I disagree with Ben. I have no doubt HE might have gone to DJ, but I'll give the rookie the benefit of the doubt that when he hits his hitch and the CB is still over him that he doesn't pull the trigger. Based on pre-snap, they are single high with no second S anywhere near the secondary, and giving Dj an 8 yard cushion. This screams 3 or man, so the yankee concept will eat -- everywhere.  So if Kenny doesn't like that first read, he should be pretty confident he has the second (and he does). That S is never going to make the play vertical, but at the hitch I can believe Kenny might not think DJ wins going away, so he wants a higher percentage throw to open the game. 

I don't doubt Roethlisberger chucks this to DJ. He knows DJ can eat the 8 yards of cushion. He probably registers that the CB is not in a position to run with him when DJ gets to his toes, and knows DJ is a good enough route runner to trust that he will put that extra head nod to the inside to freeze the CB before going vertical. Kenny not having that level of confidence either in NFL speed/coverage or DJ is understandable 6 games in. 

This goes back to a play with Trubisky when Pickens broke wide open earlier in the year. I don't blame Mitch for eliminating Pickens from the read and I don't blame Kenny if he wants to move on here either. Problem is this is a three man route with three receivers winning. This is a MUST have. 

My .02c, the player Kenny "misses" here is Sims. Tilting the S and getting man, Sims is running to no-man's land on the defense. 

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

 So was the play designed to have the two WR's cross that deep with rounded off routes like that?

I have no problems with the routes. Yes, they ran it as designed. This is an attacking downfield call. They get man here, which is the Yankees concepts best friend, but if this is zone your receivers need to be at a depth beyond the LBers dropping.  If you pause at 08 seconds, Pickens is headed to split the CB running with DJ and the LB taking on Najee and Sims is running to the void in the deep third to the near side. Thats where they should be. 

I don't have a problem with the timing either. This is a longer developing play (hence the chips and later the max protect). He takes a 5 step drop out of gun and the timing of his hitch perfectly aligns with the first read, DJ, hitting his mark on being even with the CB. If the ball is going out to the first read, it goes now -- we can't wait. Any longer and you are only playing for the crosses. 

As someone who captains the "kenny is slow to trigger" ferry, I actually don't hate his timing here. Pickens is even with the LB and Kenny is loaded to throw. This ball just needs to be headed towards the numbers. 

3 hours ago, warfelg said:

The blind squirrel part to me is both Harris and Freiermuth released forcing the WILL and SAM to come downhill.  If they don't do that, those LB's are sitting back and everyone is double covered.

Absolutely - and this is where the infuriating nature of Canada as a play caller continues. Why go max protect later in the game? Maybe someone can share the numbers on this, but I didn't feel like the Saints were sending massive pressure rates at us. 

Just frustrating to watch our offense. Canada has ideas and the concepts are basic, but they work. He just either calls it against the wrong coverage/tendencies or adds/removes levers (like the releasing back/TE here) at the wrong times. I just don't think he grasps the NFL game mentally and is just winging it on playcalls. That's why we see the same plays over and over again. 

But, oddly, watching that second yankee concept back -- the route Kenny misses DJ on is the same he should have hit Sims on earlier. Kenny switches lanes reading coverages, he cannot skip across the field. Curious if just flat out doesn't trust what he can't see. Safeties eat the vertical both times and LBs can't make up 30 yards. There is no defender to get to that deep over. Kenny avoiding it multiple times against perfect coverages for it. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

Scripted plays or not, there are still reads. That's where I disagree with Ben. I have no doubt HE might have gone to DJ, but I'll give the rookie the benefit of the doubt that when he hits his hitch and the CB is still over him that he doesn't pull the trigger. Based on pre-snap, they are single high with no second S anywhere near the secondary, and giving Dj an 8 yard cushion. This screams 3 or man, so the yankee concept will eat -- everywhere.  So if Kenny doesn't like that first read, he should be pretty confident he has the second (and he does). That S is never going to make the play vertical, but at the hitch I can believe Kenny might not think DJ wins going away, so he wants a higher percentage throw to open the game. 

I don't doubt Roethlisberger chucks this to DJ. He knows DJ can eat the 8 yards of cushion. He probably registers that the CB is not in a position to run with him when DJ gets to his toes, and knows DJ is a good enough route runner to trust that he will put that extra head nod to the inside to freeze the CB before going vertical. Kenny not having that level of confidence either in NFL speed/coverage or DJ is understandable 6 games in. 

Well said on that.  I think something not really talked about a lot is the lack of chemistry between DJ and the QB’s.  DJ sat out camp then got hurt.  So Mitch didn’t get extended snaps with him, then Kenny comes in week 4.  So the QB’s in general didn’t have enough time with DJ to know he will win that matchup and its what makes I’m a easy read to move off of.

Quote

This goes back to a play with Trubisky when Pickens broke wide open earlier in the year. I don't blame Mitch for eliminating Pickens from the read and I don't blame Kenny if he wants to move on here either. Problem is this is a three man route with three receivers winning. This is a MUST have. 

My .02c, the player Kenny "misses" here is Sims. Tilting the S and getting man, Sims is running to no-man's land on the defense. 

It is a must have, but as I pointed out and you agree on it was more a win because of a “mistake” than good play design.

I think the miss is everyone.  A completion to any of the 3 is a big play in any way.  It softens the defense.  We’ve really lacked that defense softening play.  Even though it wasn’t complete, now Dennis Allen et. Al. Are watching for that mesh movement and working to protect against it.

Quote

I have no problems with the routes. Yes, they ran it as designed. This is an attacking downfield call. They get man here, which is the Yankees concepts best friend, but if this is zone your receivers need to be at a depth beyond the LBers dropping.  If you pause at 08 seconds, Pickens is headed to split the CB running with DJ and the LB taking on Najee and Sims is running to the void in the deep third to the near side. Thats where they should be. 

I have problems with how the routes were run.  The breaks were very rounded.  No sharpe breaks and not holding the line and drifting away from the LOS makes the throw harder.  Against a better defense that’s a play where Kenny has no where to go with the ball.

Quote

I don't have a problem with the timing either. This is a longer developing play (hence the chips and later the max protect). He takes a 5 step drop out of gun and the timing of his hitch perfectly aligns with the first read, DJ, hitting his mark on being even with the CB. If the ball is going out to the first read, it goes now -- we can't wait. Any longer and you are only playing for the crosses. 

As someone who captains the "kenny is slow to trigger" ferry, I actually don't hate his timing here. Pickens is even with the LB and Kenny is loaded to throw. This ball just needs to be headed towards the numbers. 

I’m more overall the development of the play is bad.  Were’s Kenny’s hot route?  Where’s his easy completion?  What’s his breakdown escape?  It was basically throw it away or take a sack.  So a long developing play that requires him to be a sitting duck without the hot route is not a good habit for Kenny to develop.

Quote

Absolutely - and this is where the infuriating nature of Canada as a play caller continues. Why go max protect later in the game? Maybe someone can share the numbers on this, but I didn't feel like the Saints were sending massive pressure rates at us. 

Don’t have the number but the Saints are not a big blitz team because of how bad their secondary and run game is.  I heard someone else toss this out there, but max protect could limit the number of reads Kenny needs.  Additionally Dodson has apparently been dealing with a hip flexor and core muscle injury, so he’s needed help blocking, which means you need to keep someone in.

Quote

Just frustrating to watch our offense. Canada has ideas and the concepts are basic, but they work. He just either calls it against the wrong coverage/tendencies or adds/removes levers (like the releasing back/TE here) at the wrong times. I just don't think he grasps the NFL game mentally and is just winging it on playcalls. That's why we see the same plays over and over again. 

I think, like I’ve pointed out with Kenny, (and there’s comments to the media from Canada to back this up) that he’s so worried about us that he forgets that running the play right or wrong doesn’t matter, its if you dialed up to beat something the beats the defense.  NCAA features a lot of man coverage not zone because of the time needed to work on it.  So what we meet a man based defense, it works.  When we play zone, it doesn’t.  If you want me to, from a defensive perspective, I can talk it through using the jet sweep.

Quote

But, oddly, watching that second yankee concept back -- the route Kenny misses DJ on is the same he should have hit Sims on earlier. Kenny switches lanes reading coverages, he cannot skip across the field. Curious if just flat out doesn't trust what he can't see. Safeties eat the vertical both times and LBs can't make up 30 yards. There is no defender to get to that deep over. Kenny avoiding it multiple times against perfect coverages for it. 

I think it’s just a speed of the game thing right now.  Arthur Moats made a good comment about Kenny and the “NFL ready” thing, and he said it’s not about making those reads or speed of the game.  “NFL ready” for any position means that guys isn’t going to live in his fears, he’ll bounce back from mistakes, he won’t let bad get him down.  He pointed to watching Malik Willis; in Willis made some throws and plays Kenny cannot but you also saw after a mistake Willis avoided having to look at that decision again where Kenny will go back to it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...