Raiders Longterm Outlook

[NYRaider]

12 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

James is a bum and can be easily upgraded in the mid rounds of a draft.  The guy is average at best

I've never been big on James either. Sign Nate Davis/Isaiah Wynn, draft a guard in the third, move Parham to center, profit?

[NYRaider]

On 11/10/2022 at 7:42 PM, Frankie2Gunz said:

There are some nice names on here.  I am not sure how much cap space we'll have but landing Payne, one of those OT's to play RT and one of those young corners would be a great haul at three major areas of need. 

We should have like $43M before cuts or restructures so I'd imagine that we'll have a lot of money to work with this offseason. I'd like to see us sign two veteran OL and spend an early pick on one as well. And then use our remaining cap space to just go all in on improving the defense. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

6 hours ago, NYRaider said:

We should have like $43M before cuts or restructures so I'd imagine that we'll have a lot of money to work with this offseason. I'd like to see us sign two veteran OL and spend an early pick on one as well. And then use our remaining cap space to just go all in on improving the defense. 

The team needs an overhaul at most positions.  I am all for BPA in the draft but I think priority number 1 has to be signing Payne if he hits the market..  The rest of FA should be finding two new starters on the Oline and adding quality depth at almost every position. 

I hope we can land a top 4 pick in this draft as that will give us many options.  BPA or trade back for a boatload of picks.  Since the season is toast a top 4 pick would be exactly what we need. 

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

The team needs an overhaul at most positions.  I am all for BPA in the draft but I think priority number 1 has to be signing Payne if he hits the market..  The rest of FA should be finding two new starters on the Oline and adding quality depth at almost every position. 

I hope we can land a top 4 pick in this draft as that will give us many options.  BPA or trade back for a boatload of picks.  Since the season is toast a top 4 pick would be exactly what we need. 

Agreed. Payne plus Carter or Anderson would really help sure up our defensive front. I'd love to see Nelly brought back too.

[Frankie2Gunz]

38 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Agreed. Payne plus Carter or Anderson would really help sure up our defensive front. I'd love to see Nelly brought back too.

Anderson or Carter would be ideal at huge areas of need. 

No doubt this O lacks speed.  We need a field stretcher as our #2.  Hollins is serviceable but should be further down on the pecking order and is better suited as a 3 or 4 who is a RZ threat.  He is not an every down WR.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Frankie2Gunz

[NYRaider]

4 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Anderson or Carter would be ideal at huge areas of need. 

No doubt this O lacks speed.  We need a field stretcher as our #2.  Hollins is serviceable but should be further down on the pecking order and is better suited as a 3 or 4 who is a RZ threat.  He is not an every down WR.

I'm just interested to see what we do with Carr.

[Frankie2Gunz]

12 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I'm just interested to see what we do with Carr.

I dont think we do anything with him regardless of what we do in the draft.  Lets say we draft a QB early, it would be advantageous to sit him behind Carr for a period of time before turning the reigns over to him.  If we draft a guy and he turns out to be a bust once we get him on the field we will have Carr as a fallback option.  I'm sure Carr would be pissed in that scenario but football is a business and all players realize this. 

The talk of cutting Carr this offseason if flat out nonsense.  It will never happen.  

Edited November 16, 2022 by Frankie2Gunz

[RaisinBran]

It seems like the way Carr's contract is structured right now there's an out for the org after this year. McDaniels is probably safe given Mark Davis' previous statements, and Carr will probably be gone.

I'm really on the fence with Carr. I wouldn't be mad if we moved on from him (and I would appreciate him for everything he's done for us), and wouldn't be mad if we kept him. If we do keep him, we have to improve the offensive line and get our guys healthy... 

As much as I know a lot of Raider fans hate Carr there are a lot that appreciate him too. I'm still waiting to see what our offense looks like with all our weapons active... and I think we can get back to the playoff wild card next year with our current offense healthy.. but we will never make the playoffs with our current defense. If it were me I'd be ok to keep Carr, upgrade RT, and just use every draft pick I can on defense and improve our defensive line.

[ronjon1990]

Offense:

QB: Leave Carr in place for now. A rookie is getting obliterated behind this line and if we're going with a rookie AND McDaniels' apparently complex scheme, we don't want them starting unless we have a solid OL and run game to lean on (see: Jones, Mac)

RB: With Jacobs almost assuredly leaving and Abdullah/Bolden likely being expendable, we need some help. White hasn't shown me enough to roll with him yet, and Brown is TBD. I'd look at Shawn Tucker, Zach Charbonnet, or Chase Brown in this year's draft on day 2. 

WR: Adams and Carr clearly have some chemistry still. Done deal there. Hollins is ok given this is his first time seeing legit snaps at WR. Ideally he's a WR3/4. Renfrow is obviously hurt. I'd try and find someone to be a legit WR2 opposite Adams of possible, preferably a speed guy, probably in FA. In the draft, go overall talent over speed if need be and look into Cedric Tillman from Tennessee. Overall, I'm not too worried about WR over the next few years, though Adams isn't lasting forever. 

TE: Move Waller and use the picks to reload elsewhere. Roll with Moreau for now and look for a day 3 type like Will Mallory or maybe a slider like Arik Gilbert? Moving Waller will help cap space, with picks, and if reports are true maybe overall morale. 

OL: Probably a multi-year issue while we look for our QBOTF. Miller might rebound and is the safest for now, but it's very much a for now situation in my eyes. Parham and Munford should be our OGs going forward. C and RT are musts. Waller's cap savings or a pick should help shore this up, but again, nobody should be considered untouchable on the OL. I want this unit at least consistently serviceable before we put a rookie behind it, whether we take one sooner or later. 

On Defense

Edge: Crosby is safe. Jones shouldn't be. Hopefully he just retires lol. I really like Andre Carter II out of Army as a possible pick. Maybe Bralen Trice or Zion Tupiola-Fetui. Honestly probably better off looking into 2024 or FA for now given the more apparent needs. 

DT: If we don't trade down, we have to take Jalen Carter this year. Our lack of interior pass rush hurts everyone else. 

LB: Could use some workz but not our biggest needs. Day 2 or 3 type looks in the draft. 

CB: Gotta have someone across from Hobbs, maybe even 2 guys. Resign Rock. Let everyone else walk for all I care. 

S: Hope Moehrig rebounds. Maybe Pola-Mao shows out and we can skip S for a bit. 

 

Invest heavily in the trenches and run game and focus on just tinkering and reloading elsewhere for now. In a couple of years, we should have a new QB that will hopefully step into a good situation without pressure to produce against hope. We should have the weaponry part fairly squared away, but we have to block the poor guy and have a run game in place to take heat off of him. Asking him to run willy nilly isn't sustainable and will ultimately just flop. 

We've got to get our pass rush squared away. Our secondary can use some work, but without a true pass rush, we see what happens- QBs just sit and wait for guys to pop open. Get that fixed first and foremost. It's as important as blocking on offense, because we don't need to ask yet another QB to constantly win shootouts because we can't stop anyone. I want to spend the next few years building towards success that can be sustainable, not fleeting. After that we can worry about being flashy. 

Edited November 16, 2022 by ronjon1990

[drfrey13]

There are a few of us who are and have been pounding the table for some DT improvements but if we draft a DT in 1st or the 3rd we can not expect that player to produce much in year one.  It is possible that he will come out the gates running but history shows that most DTs struggle in year one.

[drfrey13]

Just curious but if we hold the #2 pick with a shot at Young or Stroud what would you want in compensation to move back to #4 and still be able to get Stroud, Young, Anderson, or Carter?  Carter is who we would most likely end up with.

Let say as an example Panthers offer #4, #38, and 2023 2nd.

[big_palooka]

6 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

Offense:

QB: Leave Carr in place for now. A rookie is getting obliterated behind this line and if we're going with a rookie AND McDaniels' apparently complex scheme, we don't want them starting unless we have a solid OL and run game to lean on (see: Jones, Mac)

RB: With Jacobs almost assuredly leaving and Abdullah/Bolden likely being expendable, we need some help. White hasn't shown me enough to roll with him yet, and Brown is TBD. I'd look at Shawn Tucker, Zach Charbonnet, or Chase Brown in this year's draft on day 2. 

WR: Adams and Carr clearly have some chemistry still. Done deal there. Hollins is ok given this is his first time seeing legit snaps at WR. Ideally he's a WR3/4. Renfrow is obviously hurt. I'd try and find someone to be a legit WR2 opposite Adams of possible, preferably a speed guy, probably in FA. In the draft, go overall talent over speed if need be and look into Cedric Tillman from Tennessee. Overall, I'm not too worried about WR over the next few years, though Adams isn't lasting forever. 

TE: Move Waller and use the picks to reload elsewhere. Roll with Moreau for now and look for a day 3 type like Will Mallory or maybe a slider like Arik Gilbert? Moving Waller will help cap space, with picks, and if reports are true maybe overall morale. 

OL: Probably a multi-year issue while we look for our QBOTF. Miller might rebound and is the safest for now, but it's very much a for now situation in my eyes. Parham and Munford should be our OGs going forward. C and RT are musts. Waller's cap savings or a pick should help shore this up, but again, nobody should be considered untouchable on the OL. I want this unit at least consistently serviceable before we put a rookie behind it, whether we take one sooner or later. 

On Defense

Edge: Crosby is safe. Jones shouldn't be. Hopefully he just retires lol. I really like Andre Carter II out of Army as a possible pick. Maybe Bralen Trice or Zion Tupiola-Fetui. Honestly probably better off looking into 2024 or FA for now given the more apparent needs. 

DT: If we don't trade down, we have to take Jalen Carter this year. Our lack of interior pass rush hurts everyone else. 

LB: Could use some workz but not our biggest needs. Day 2 or 3 type looks in the draft. 

CB: Gotta have someone across from Hobbs, maybe even 2 guys. Resign Rock. Let everyone else walk for all I care. 

S: Hope Moehrig rebounds. Maybe Pola-Mao shows out and we can skip S for a bit. 

 

Invest heavily in the trenches and run game and focus on just tinkering and reloading elsewhere for now. In a couple of years, we should have a new QB that will hopefully step into a good situation without pressure to produce against hope. We should have the weaponry part fairly squared away, but we have to block the poor guy and have a run game in place to take heat off of him. Asking him to run willy nilly isn't sustainable and will ultimately just flop. 

We've got to get our pass rush squared away. Our secondary can use some work, but without a true pass rush, we see what happens- QBs just sit and wait for guys to pop open. Get that fixed first and foremost. It's as important as blocking on offense, because we don't need to ask yet another QB to constantly win shootouts because we can't stop anyone. I want to spend the next few years building towards success that can be sustainable, not fleeting. After that we can worry about being flashy. 

This really puts in perspective how much works needs done on the roster. It would go a long way if the rookies develop on the Oline and Dline. Carter would be a no brainer, but it's usually year 3 before a DT really breaks out.

I disagree on LB. I think it's a huge need. They need more speed and coverage there. Safety as well. I'm trading Moehrig in the offseason. I don't see any value in him going forward. 

CB - Can Hobbs play outside consistently? Or is he best in the slot? I like ya-sin and would like to add a vet opposite him. 

[BackinBlack]

6 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Just curious but if we hold the #2 pick with a shot at Young or Stroud what would you want in compensation to move back to #4 and still be able to get Stroud, Young, Anderson, or Carter?  Carter is who we would most likely end up with.

Let say as an example Panthers offer #4, #38, and 2023 2nd.

If they are moving up for their QB, I would expect 4 and next years 1. 
It seems like other teams get that but we never get the good value. 
Jets used 3 seconds to move up 2 spots for Wilson right? 

[ronjon1990]

3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

This really puts in perspective how much works needs done on the roster. It would go a long way if the rookies develop on the Oline and Dline. Carter would be a no brainer, but it's usually year 3 before a DT really breaks out.

I disagree on LB. I think it's a huge need. They need more speed and coverage there. Safety as well. I'm trading Moehrig in the offseason. I don't see any value in him going forward. 

CB - Can Hobbs play outside consistently? Or is he best in the slot? I like ya-sin and would like to add a vet opposite him. 

On LBs, we're by no means done. But until the pass rush gets fixed, if we're going to constantly have our LBs in coverage, it'll hardly matter as they're left out to dry like the secondary. Hence addressing the DL first and foremost. I'm not sour on Brown or Deablo yet, at least not enough to make it a priority. Perryman is alright, but we need some bodies for sure- just not at the expense of the DL. 

Moehrig is neither here nor there to me. He's a body. I defer back to the DL not helping in most cases. If we can upgrade at FS, excellent. But again, not at the expense of the trenches. 

As for CB, Hobbs probably can. But is it the best use of him? Probably not. Ya-Sin, a vet, and a day 2 pick would be prime as it gives us some wiggle room to play Hobbs at his best spot instead of forcing it. 

 

Side note: Ya-Sin is good. If we can find a vet and grab someone who is a ballhawk type, can Hobbs play FS if we move Moehrig? He seems to tackle and blitz well enough and strikes me as a guy you can allow to freelance a bit. 

[big_palooka]

6 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

On LBs, we're by no means done. But until the pass rush gets fixed, if we're going to constantly have our LBs in coverage, it'll hardly matter as they're left out to dry like the secondary. Hence addressing the DL first and foremost. I'm not sour on Brown or Deablo yet, at least not enough to make it a priority. Perryman is alright, but we need some bodies for sure- just not at the expense of the DL. 

Moehrig is neither here nor there to me. He's a body. I defer back to the DL not helping in most cases. If we can upgrade at FS, excellent. But again, not at the expense of the trenches. 

As for CB, Hobbs probably can. But is it the best use of him? Probably not. Ya-Sin, a vet, and a day 2 pick would be prime as it gives us some wiggle room to play Hobbs at his best spot instead of forcing it. 

 

Side note: Ya-Sin is good. If we can find a vet and grab someone who is a ballhawk type, can Hobbs play FS if we move Moehrig? He seems to tackle and blitz well enough and strikes me as a guy you can allow to freelance a bit. 

Agree with you. DL is paramount in fixing the overall defense.

I think you have to address it in FA to get quick results. Payne or Hargrave ideally, then add Carter/Anderson.