Raiders Longterm Outlook

[Geezy]

Long term outlook will depend on if we finally have a FO that can draft. I am encouraged by the first draft, I think guys like Parham and White can be a a part of the future. I hope we attack the trenches on both sides. The offense will no doubt better with a competent OL,  but I also think our back 7 will look a lot better with an average DL, we are brutal up front outside of 98. I’d love Anderson or Carter to team up with Crosby. Would be nice to finally have an identity on defense rather than just a bunch of bodies from different regimes resulting in a bottom 10 defense. 

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, Geezy said:

Long term outlook will depend on if we finally have a FO that can draft. I am encouraged by the first draft, I think guys like Parham and White can be a a part of the future. I hope we attack the trenches on both sides. The offense will no doubt better with a competent OL,  but I also think our back 7 will look a lot better with an average DL, we are brutal up front outside of 98. I’d love Anderson or Carter to team up with Crosby. Would be nice to finally have an identity on defense rather than just a bunch of bodies from different regimes resulting in a bottom 10 defense. 

Agree. The turnover year after year is frustrating. It's been a collection of underachieving draft picks and guys on prove it deals who prove nothing for years now. With the occasional FA bust mixed in. 

 

[NickButera]

I've lost all faith, not emotionally but objectively. There are just way too many self contradictions in what the management is telling us that it's impossible to believe them.

 

The Players aren't executing: They executed last year to get to the playoffs. They executed well enough to get a 17 point lead in how many games? They executed well enough to almost beat the best team in the league. This is factually incorrect, they are executing, and have proven they can execute. Just not consistently this year.  Why can't they do what you ask them to now but they could last year? 

"We need to learn how to finish games/play for a full 4 quarters": They did, until we hired Josh McDaniels. Both the offense and defense delivered last year in the moments that mattered most, despite how they played over the first 4 quarters. They already learned how to do that and have proven it, but they aren't now. If anything it's a lack of motivation, not learning. Which falls in the lap of leadership. 

We are going to need to rebuild/get the players they need: You already did, Adams, Jones, you generously signed Carr, Renfrow and Waller to huge extentions.  3 months ago fans were told we would not have to rebuild. Being lied to as a fan tells me they either don't know what they're talking about, or failed in what they told us they could do.  Our new leadership is either a liar, or a failure. Pick one. 

Taking a hard look at the facts, Josh McDaniels is a horrible coach. And he will be until he proves us wrong. He's 13-24 as a head coach and has already been caught cheating. I'm as hopeful as the next fan, but the fact is this is who he is right now. 

[Steins Gate]

42 minutes ago, NickButera said:

I've lost all faith, not emotionally but objectively. There are just way too many self contradictions in what the management is telling us that it's impossible to believe them.

 

The Players aren't executing: They executed last year to get to the playoffs. They executed well enough to get a 17 point lead in how many games? They executed well enough to almost beat the best team in the league. This is factually incorrect, they are executing, and have proven they can execute. Just not consistently this year.  Why can't they do what you ask them to now but they could last year? 

"We need to learn how to finish games/play for a full 4 quarters": They did, until we hired Josh McDaniels. Both the offense and defense delivered last year in the moments that mattered most, despite how they played over the first 4 quarters. They already learned how to do that and have proven it, but they aren't now. If anything it's a lack of motivation, not learning. Which falls in the lap of leadership. 

We are going to need to rebuild/get the players they need: You already did, Adams, Jones, you generously signed Carr, Renfrow and Waller to huge extentions.  3 months ago fans were told we would not have to rebuild. Being lied to as a fan tells me they either don't know what they're talking about, or failed in what they told us they could do.  Our new leadership is either a liar, or a failure. Pick one. 

Taking a hard look at the facts, Josh McDaniels is a horrible coach. And he will be until he proves us wrong. He's 13-24 as a head coach and has already been caught cheating. I'm as hopeful as the next fan, but the fact is this is who he is right now. 

[Geezy]

59 minutes ago, NickButera said:

I've lost all faith, not emotionally but objectively. There are just way too many self contradictions in what the management is telling us that it's impossible to believe them.

 

The Players aren't executing: They executed last year to get to the playoffs. They executed well enough to get a 17 point lead in how many games? They executed well enough to almost beat the best team in the league. This is factually incorrect, they are executing, and have proven they can execute. Just not consistently this year.  Why can't they do what you ask them to now but they could last year? 

"We need to learn how to finish games/play for a full 4 quarters": They did, until we hired Josh McDaniels. Both the offense and defense delivered last year in the moments that mattered most, despite how they played over the first 4 quarters. They already learned how to do that and have proven it, but they aren't now. If anything it's a lack of motivation, not learning. Which falls in the lap of leadership. 

We are going to need to rebuild/get the players they need: You already did, Adams, Jones, you generously signed Carr, Renfrow and Waller to huge extentions.  3 months ago fans were told we would not have to rebuild. Being lied to as a fan tells me they either don't know what they're talking about, or failed in what they told us they could do.  Our new leadership is either a liar, or a failure. Pick one. 

Taking a hard look at the facts, Josh McDaniels is a horrible coach. And he will be until he proves us wrong. He's 13-24 as a head coach and has already been caught cheating. I'm as hopeful as the next fan, but the fact is this is who he is right now. 

last year was a fluke, the players arent good enough, the new wonder boy regime is modern and much smarter than the guys who took us to that fake playoff appearance, but they resigned last years FAs to fat contracts and brought in their own guys on top of that. They need to rebuild the roster with their players so they traded away two premium picks and made a near 30 year old WR the highest paid in the league. Then we failed to retain any of the DL that were actually applying pressure for a 32 year old that has been a ghost all year. Traded away Yannick, who has as many pressures as Jones, Nichols and Billings combined. Then failed to address the weakest part of the team from last year and expected to rotate them to success. Then keep 4 RBs and only use 1, while being shorthanded at so many other spots. 

 

Constant contradiction. 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Geezy

[Jeremy408]

59 minutes ago, NickButera said:

I've lost all faith, not emotionally but objectively. There are just way too many self contradictions in what the management is telling us that it's impossible to believe them.

 

The Players aren't executing: They executed last year to get to the playoffs. They executed well enough to get a 17 point lead in how many games? They executed well enough to almost beat the best team in the league. This is factually incorrect, they are executing, and have proven they can execute. Just not consistently this year.  Why can't they do what you ask them to now but they could last year? 

"We need to learn how to finish games/play for a full 4 quarters": They did, until we hired Josh McDaniels. Both the offense and defense delivered last year in the moments that mattered most, despite how they played over the first 4 quarters. They already learned how to do that and have proven it, but they aren't now. If anything it's a lack of motivation, not learning. Which falls in the lap of leadership. 

We are going to need to rebuild/get the players they need: You already did, Adams, Jones, you generously signed Carr, Renfrow and Waller to huge extentions.  3 months ago fans were told we would not have to rebuild. Being lied to as a fan tells me they either don't know what they're talking about, or failed in what they told us they could do.  Our new leadership is either a liar, or a failure. Pick one. 

Taking a hard look at the facts, Josh McDaniels is a horrible coach. And he will be until he proves us wrong. He's 13-24 as a head coach and has already been caught cheating. I'm as hopeful as the next fan, but the fact is this is who he is right now. 

It's a commitment to mediocrity

[big_palooka]

2 hours ago, NickButera said:

I've lost all faith, not emotionally but objectively. There are just way too many self contradictions in what the management is telling us that it's impossible to believe them.

The Players aren't executing: They executed last year to get to the playoffs. They executed well enough to get a 17 point lead in how many games? They executed well enough to almost beat the best team in the league. This is factually incorrect, they are executing, and have proven they can execute. Just not consistently this year.  Why can't they do what you ask them to now but they could last year? 

"We need to learn how to finish games/play for a full 4 quarters": They did, until we hired Josh McDaniels. Both the offense and defense delivered last year in the moments that mattered most, despite how they played over the first 4 quarters. They already learned how to do that and have proven it, but they aren't now. If anything it's a lack of motivation, not learning. Which falls in the lap of leadership. 

We are going to need to rebuild/get the players they need: You already did, Adams, Jones, you generously signed Carr, Renfrow and Waller to huge extentions.  3 months ago fans were told we would not have to rebuild. Being lied to as a fan tells me they either don't know what they're talking about, or failed in what they told us they could do.  Our new leadership is either a liar, or a failure. Pick one. 

Taking a hard look at the facts, Josh McDaniels is a horrible coach. And he will be until he proves us wrong. He's 13-24 as a head coach and has already been caught cheating. I'm as hopeful as the next fan, but the fact is this is who he is right now. 

I generally agree. But guessing some of the results last year were because they had 4 years in the same system last year and players stayed healthy.

Picking one, leadership are a failure to this point. They clearly thought they could load up offensively, score a lot of points and just needed the defense to be average. Injuries killed them. Those guys got ~40 snaps together. And they lost projected starts on the Oline and on defense. 

The only reason for optimism is they've been competitive. They had a really nice game against KC. 

I 100% agree though, tired of everyone talking in circles and have lost faith in leadership. There are some well respected positional coaches on this staff to be THIS bad. 

[NickButera]

12 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I generally agree. But guessing some of the results last year were because they had 4 years in the same system last year and players stayed healthy.

Picking one, leadership are a failure to this point. They clearly thought they could load up offensively, score a lot of points and just needed the defense to be average. Injuries killed them. Those guys got ~40 snaps together. And they lost projected starts on the Oline and on defense. 

The only reason for optimism is they've been competitive. They had a really nice game against KC. 

I 100% agree though, tired of everyone talking in circles and have lost faith in leadership. There are some well respected positional coaches on this staff to be THIS bad. 

We have some straight up foreable offenses so far from a management/coaching perspective. I read earlier that in opponents goal to go situations (16 of them), opponents have scored on all of them. That, and we turned a defensive line that was 4th most in pressures into the last ranked pressures and sacks in the league. Ngakue currently has more pressures that the 3 starters we brought in on the dline, and more sacks than our entire defense outside of Crosby. ...and we're on the hook for 45mil for these 3 starters next year in cap space and we'll need to spend more just to be respectable in an area that we were great at last year.

It's pure and unadulterated ineptitude of the highest level. Inexcusable under any circumstance. And here Davis called McDaniels doing a "fantastic job". This may be the lowest I've felt since the Art Shell era. 

[NickButera]

I need to reign it in. I've become the voice of death around here 😂😂😂

Need a new name: grim reaper the pessimist

I hope JMD can prove me wrong someday

[Steins Gate]

3 minutes ago, NickButera said:

We have some straight up foreable offenses so far from a management/coaching perspective. I read earlier that in opponents goal to go situations (16 of them), opponents have scored on all of them. That, and we turned a defensive line that was 4th most in pressures into the last ranked pressures and sacks in the league. Ngakue currently has more pressures that the 3 starters we brought in on the dline, and more sacks than our entire defense outside of Crosby. ...and we're on the hook for 45mil for these 3 starters and we'll need to spend more just to be respectable in an area that we were great at last year.

It's pure and unadulterated ineptitude of the highest level. Inexcusable under any circumstance. And here Davis called McDaniels doing a "fantastic job". This may be the lowest I've felt since the Art Shell era. 

Agree 100%. McDummy should have just kept Bradley and let him build on what he had started.

Art Shell would have been okay if he had a modern OC and blocking schemes. That "Bed & Breakfast" offense was putrid.....

[BayRaider]

Long term outlook is fine once we get a QB that is Mahomes/Herbert caliber. It’s a QB league. That position makes up for A LOT. A LOT. 

Keep building the defense and OL, and we will be a force. 

[bucksavage1]

17 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Long term outlook is fine once we get a QB that is Mahomes/Herbert caliber. It’s a QB league. That position makes up for A LOT. A LOT. 

Keep building the defense and OL, and we will be a force. 

100% 💯 

An Uber talented QB like Mahomes, Burrow, Herbert would make up for a lot. They make average players better. We can build the trenches through 2nd, mid round picks and FA. 

[101Raider]

3 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

It's a commitment to mediocrity

Saddest part of this statement is that mediocre would be an improvement. We aren’t even at level of an average team

[Jeremy408]

1 hour ago, Steins Gate said:

Agree 100%. McDummy should have just kept Bradley and let him build on what he had started.

Art Shell would have been okay if he had a modern OC and blocking schemes. That "Bed & Breakfast" offense was putrid.....

I said that too in January and people gave me hell for it

[Steins Gate]

3 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

I said that too in January and people gave me hell for it

I wasn't posting then so I missed that. But good call if you did.

Even if it's true that Mark Davis can't afford to fire McDummy (which I doubt), then why not just fire Graham?  Bring in another DC in the off season to get this defense going. If McDummy's preferred defense is the 3-4, I would recommend someone from the Buccs defensive staff. I have always liked Todd Bowles' style of defense and it would be nice to bring that to the Raiders.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Steins Gate