A Longtime Bears Fan Observation

[Bigbear72]

First, let me start by saying that this is strictly my opinion, and I realize that not everyone fits into the narrative I'm about to write. I have been a fan of the Beloved for the better part of 40 years. I have ridden the rollercoaster of our fandom. I have seen nearly every game during that time span. We have definitely seen many lean years as a fanbase which has sparked an array of emotional opinions about our team. What I find "interesting" is that I am not sure there will ever be a case where our fanbase will be satisfied with anything or any approach is taken (I am no exception at times). Let me explain.

Last year, when Nagy was at the helm, one of the biggest complaints was that we seemed to have an effective running game. Many fans questions why we would not just run the ball down teams' throats until they could stop us. We are the number one running team in the league, and fans complain that we are not throwing the ball. They are complaining about this while we still have a terrible OL when it comes to pass pro. This is an undeniable fact. We have minimal pass options—also an indisputable fact. We are going to have to exercise some real patience here. Building this team is like making a brisket. If you rush through it and don't have all the ingredients, it will be an inedible piece of trash. But, if you take the time to do it right, it will be spectacular. Justin Fields will be great, and the team will succeed with the proper players around him.

[WindyCity]

Winning will cure everything.

All of those are micro complaints born from being a bad team for so long.

[dll2000]

In football when you are winning everything you do and say is wise.

When you are losing it is converse.  No matter the words - they are heard as moronic to most ears.  

When we are losing 15-17 people will still complain about defense.  If we could have held them that last drive we win.  

When we are losing 35-38 people will still  complain about offense.   If we could have scored that last drive we win.   

It is not just limited to Bears fans.  It is human nature and the natural reaction when it comes to football culture.  

[Sugashane]

The Bears have been a joke at the quarterback position since the days of Luckman. We are literally the only franchise to still not pass for 4000 yards in a season. That's embarrassing.

That being said if we have a franchise QB that can keep us top 10 in scoring I couldn't care less. PPG will trump pass yards for me any day. But sustained winning starts with QBs and then the rest of the team dictates the ceiling and consistency and ceiling. The days of winning it all with a Dilfer, McMahon or Brad Johnson are done IMO. Maybe once in a 20 year period but you're looking at almost no chance to win deep into the postseason without a QB that is arguably top 10.

 

 

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

33 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

The Bears have been a joke at the quarterback position since the days of Luckman. We are literally the only franchise to still not pass for 4000 yards in a season. That's embarrassing.

That being said if we have a franchise QB that can keep us top 10 in scoring I couldn't care less. PPG will trump pass yards for me any day. But sustained winning starts with QBs and then the rest of the team dictates the ceiling and consistency and ceiling. The days of winning it all with a Dilfer, McMahon or Brad Johnson are done IMO. Maybe once in a 20 year period but you're looking at almost no chance to win deep into the postseason without a QB that is arguably top 10.

 

 

I rarely get upset by takes out of the internet, but the takes around Fields right now are really something.  Some are borne out of ignorance (haven't watched the games and/or haven't familiarized yourself with Fields) and some are just stupid engagement lures.

The people that are acting like Fields is some kind of athlete who can't play QB so runs the ball would have to completely write off both his college career and what he ends up doing as a passer when either his elusiveness or actual rare protection give him time to pass.  The passing highlights are there even if the yards aren't.  He's consistently making incredible throws under pressure, and when he's NOT under pressure you see passes that would be up there with any top QB.  If you want him to sit back and pass like Tom Brady you are delusional about what that would look like with this offense; TLDR: any passer on his back all game. 

To see a few highlights, declare him an RB under center and sit back is to completely ignore that he's leading a group on offense that would be almost entirely backups and depth on any other team to a whole lot of points through the air and on the ground.  I am astonished that the Bears are ahving any sucess whatsoever on offense, but to be putting up 30pts per game while games are close is a testament to Fields' skills as a passer and being a smart runner more than anything else. Getsy still deserves a ton of credit for seeing the obvious flaws on O and coming up with a way to make points out of it, but if you can name more than a couple QBs who could enact that I'd be stunned. 

Fields still has his flaws, but in the contect of all the other positive records and negative noise, it's exciting to see him working past his weaknesses.  For every 50+ yd run I'm just as excited to see him get through all the reads (although it still could go faster) or throw it away realizing it's not there.  It's that stuff that's going to decide whether he's bad, good or great, as we know he can throw and we know he can run.  If he's going to keep the Bears scoring while the rest of it sorts itself out, that's A-OK by me. 

[dll2000]

33 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said:

I rarely get upset by takes out of the internet, but the takes around Fields right now are really something.  Some are borne out of ignorance (haven't watched the games and/or haven't familiarized yourself with Fields) and some are just stupid engagement lures.

The people that are acting like Fields is some kind of athlete who can't play QB so runs the ball would have to completely write off both his college career and what he ends up doing as a passer when either his elusiveness or actual rare protection give him time to pass.  The passing highlights are there even if the yards aren't.  He's consistently making incredible throws under pressure, and when he's NOT under pressure you see passes that would be up there with any top QB.  If you want him to sit back and pass like Tom Brady you are delusional about what that would look like with this offense; TLDR: any passer on his back all game. 

To see a few highlights, declare him an RB under center and sit back is to completely ignore that he's leading a group on offense that would be almost entirely backups and depth on any other team to a whole lot of points through the air and on the ground.  I am astonished that the Bears are ahving any sucess whatsoever on offense, but to be putting up 30pts per game while games are close is a testament to Fields' skills as a passer and being a smart runner more than anything else. Getsy still deserves a ton of credit for seeing the obvious flaws on O and coming up with a way to make points out of it, but if you can name more than a couple QBs who could enact that I'd be stunned. 

Fields still has his flaws, but in the contect of all the other positive records and negative noise, it's exciting to see him working past his weaknesses.  For every 50+ yd run I'm just as excited to see him get through all the reads (although it still could go faster) or throw it away realizing it's not there.  It's that stuff that's going to decide whether he's bad, good or great, as we know he can throw and we know he can run.  If he's going to keep the Bears scoring while the rest of it sorts itself out, that's A-OK by me. 

Go read the thread on General about Fields.   It will make your blood boil.

Even twitter is better than General forum on this site.   Why I seldom post outside our sub forum.  

 

[Sugashane]

22 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said:

I rarely get upset by takes out of the internet, but the takes around Fields right now are really something.  Some are borne out of ignorance (haven't watched the games and/or haven't familiarized yourself with Fields) and some are just stupid engagement lures.

The people that are acting like Fields is some kind of athlete who can't play QB so runs the ball would have to completely write off both his college career and what he ends up doing as a passer when either his elusiveness or actual rare protection give him time to pass.  The passing highlights are there even if the yards aren't.  He's consistently making incredible throws under pressure, and when he's NOT under pressure you see passes that would be up there with any top QB.  If you want him to sit back and pass like Tom Brady you are delusional about what that would look like with this offense; TLDR: any passer on his back all game. 

That is the problem. People see Mahomes come out and playing ridiculous, or Herbert's crazy rookie season, and expect Fields to do the same. Context is thrown out of the window. I said in a the gen forum was that Mahomes, Allen, and Lamar Jackson WOULD be better than Fields has been if they were swapped straight up. But they should be, they have had years to develop and grow, and Fields is learning after being underdeveloped by OSU  and Nagy. But none of those three would even be looked at as MVP candidates this year, there just isn't the talent to support even them to produce like that.

22 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said:

To see a few highlights, declare him an RB under center and sit back is to completely ignore that he's leading a group on offense that would be almost entirely backups and depth on any other team to a whole lot of points through the air and on the ground.  I am astonished that the Bears are ahving any sucess whatsoever on offense, but to be putting up 30pts per game while games are close is a testament to Fields' skills as a passer and being a smart runner more than anything else. Getsy still deserves a ton of credit for seeing the obvious flaws on O and coming up with a way to make points out of it, but if you can name more than a couple QBs who could enact that I'd be stunned. 

Agreed. Fields is going to still make his 2-3 dumb plays per game IMO but that isn't due to him actually being a poor QB or unable to read a field, he is simply raw and tries to force the issue. Learning to be a pro QB is damn hard, doing it while being in a semi-simplistic offense in college makes it harder, have Big Sky talent around you makes it really damn hard, trying to win with all that AND having a bottom 5 defense is ridiculous. When you know your defense is going to give up 25+ ppg you know each possession getting a score is more important. Dude had a really rough start but he and Getsy are gelling and doing a great job with the handicaps they have been given. 

[Sugashane]

Just now, dll2000 said:

Go read the thread on General about Fields.   It will make your blood boil.

Even twitter is better than General forum on this site.   Why I seldom post outside our sub forum.  

 

I'm not a frequent poster in Gen either. I like a few threads but most is an echochamber or someone who is either delusional or trying to just piss someone off.

[Bigbear72]

10 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Go read the thread on General about Fields.   It will make your blood boil.

Even twitter is better than General forum on this site.   Why I seldom post outside our sub forum.  

 

I read the general thread which is one of the things that prompted me to start this one (amongst others). There is zero context usually used in these arguments. That's why arguing from a pure statistical perspective is very flawed. There has to be context to everything. Someone was stating that they would take Zach Wilson over Fields because he was a better passer. We don't know that. What we do know is that he has far superior weapons to through to than fields has as well an all around better supporting cast. We do know that despite the lack of offensive support here Fields has lead the offensive to over 30 points per game over the last 3 games. I don't care how we are scoring. What matters is that no one has really been able to stop Fields from doing what he has to do to put points on the board.

[Sugashane]

19 minutes ago, Bigbear72 said:

I read the general thread which is one of the things that prompted me to start this one (amongst others). There is zero context usually used in these arguments. That's why arguing from a pure statistical perspective is very flawed. There has to be context to everything. Someone was stating that they would take Zach Wilson over Fields because he was a better passer. We don't know that. What we do know is that he has far superior weapons to through to than fields has as well an all around better supporting cast. We do know that despite the lack of offensive support here Fields has lead the offensive to over 30 points per game over the last 3 games. I don't care how we are scoring. What matters is that no one has really been able to stop Fields from doing what he has to do to put points on the board.

It's been 4 straight ya hooker! 😁

[Bigbear72]

Just now, Sugashane said:

It's been 4 straight ya hooker! 😁

[Bigbear72]

My mind only allows me to count as high as 3 when taking the Bears and consecutive 30 point games into consideration.

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

Go read the thread on General about Fields.   It will make your blood boil.

 

Absolutely I will not do that.  Best skill I ever learned in life is not only knowing when to leave an idiotic arrangment but when not to get into one.  Keeps me off 99% of the internet so I get more done. 

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

That is the problem. People see Mahomes come out and playing ridiculous, or Herbert's crazy rookie season, and expect Fields to do the same. Context is thrown out of the window. I said in a the gen forum was that Mahomes, Allen, and Lamar Jackson WOULD be better than Fields has been if they were swapped straight up. But they should be, they have had years to develop and grow, and Fields is learning after being underdeveloped by OSU  and Nagy. But none of those three would even be looked at as MVP candidates this year, there just isn't the talent to support even them to produce like that.

Agreed. Fields is going to still make his 2-3 dumb plays per game IMO but that isn't due to him actually being a poor QB or unable to read a field, he is simply raw and tries to force the issue. Learning to be a pro QB is damn hard, doing it while being in a semi-simplistic offense in college makes it harder, have Big Sky talent around you makes it really damn hard, trying to win with all that AND having a bottom 5 defense is ridiculous. When you know your defense is going to give up 25+ ppg you know each possession getting a score is more important. Dude had a really rough start but he and Getsy are gelling and doing a great job with the handicaps they have been given. 

Isn't your first point what makes this so fun though?  We, and only we, voluntarily sit through all these Bears' games, we get these guys and what they can do. After the 9ers game my thought was "well, we'll always have that. Maybe we'll find out if Fields is good next year?" but to watch a dude absolutely transcend his surroudnings is amazing. All it needs is some Hans Zimmer music, and for him to knock Aaron Rodgers off a roof at the end and save his girl. 

What QB doesn't have 2-3 dumb plays again?  I swear, we ought to just remove Tom Brady from the answer to any football question, as it really colors the narrative with an impossible expectation. Fields probably processes kind of slow with his reads, and maybe that's a forever thing, but when he gets the right one it's usually a good ball. Fine, I can live with that. You fix that by giving him time in years to develop and time in seconds with better OL every offseason. He holds the ball too long. Fine. THat's usually because he's trying to buy his guys time to do _something_ down field.  Aside from the big plays, that's probably the thing he has improved on the most. His reads look to be slightly sub average vs "did someone pause just him on the replay?" Plus the stat for that has to be skewed based on him running around back there. They should deduct a whole second for every 270 degree rotation his body performs. It's only fair. 

[dll2000]

12 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said:

Absolutely I will not do that.  Best skill I ever learned in life is not only knowing when to leave an idiotic arrangment but when not to get into one.  Keeps me off 99% of the internet so I get more done. 

You are wise.  

https://www.openbible.info/topics/arguing_with_a_fool