Jump to content

Grand Scheme of Ted Thompson Overall


ChaRisMa

Recommended Posts

46 minutes ago, JBURGE25 said:

Why? Why isn't everyone accountable? All three of them are in their own ways. Dom doesn't really need to be explained, Mike because the system hasn't adjusted to help Hundley, all he has been doing is calling more screens, and Ted...

 

 

No no. The fact that everyone thinks it's all this guy or all that guy. I TOTALLY agree it's a bit of all of them. That's my endless rant here. But it feels like some people are convinced it's all Ted it it's all Mike. Or Dom but that's another story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said:

No no. The fact that everyone thinks it's all this guy or all that guy. I TOTALLY agree it's a bit of all of them. That's my endless rant here. But it feels like some people are convinced it's all Ted it it's all Mike. Or Dom but that's another story.

It's definitely all 3. I blame TT and then MM the most in terms of accountability. Capers is just collecting his check because no one has kicked his *** out of the building yet. That's more on MM and TT than Capers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, ChaRisMa said:

Okay here's what I feel is a valid point. Ted bought the groceries Mike asked for. Mike undercooked the chicken and now everyone has diarrhea. Hundley is 100x more of a problem than anything else on this team. We're 4-1 before he gets on the field, we're 1-4 with him on the field. Ted gave Mike the prospect to develop, and Mike has completely failed to develop him. And it isn't even like you can say he was Ted's pick, it's his fault. Mike is supposed to be a QB Guru. You're telling me Mike didn't see this coming based off practice the last two and a half seasons? He didn't tell Ted this was coming? Stevie Wonder can see Hundley has bad mechanics, bad decision making skills, and bad pocket presence. 

As an initial matter, I am not absolving MM of liability here. Pretty much everyone here knows my feelings about MM, they aren't overly flattering. 

The Hundley point raises two things for me, one you touched on and one you didn't:

Question 1: Could TT have foreseen that Hundley was going to be this bad and if not, is it all on MM for not developing him? -- I don't think this is 100% in either direction. I would agree that MM has "not developed" Hundley, but I also believe in the fact that some QBs are born with the requirements to play at this level and some aren't. I think we are getting a glimpse that Hundley is the latter. He doesn't have it "upstairs" or "between the eyes." He can't read defenses, can't anticipate, can't cycle through progressions or generally execute the other "mental" aspects of the game. So the question becomes, can those attributes be taught or not? I think those attributes can be "developed" and grow over time of course but there has to be a foundation there. This brings us full-circle to Hundley's draft scouting reports where these EXACT same problems plagued him at UCLA. He had the physical attributes of a 1st round pick but the mental attributes of an UDFA. So, these problems were open and apparent to TT when he drafted Hundley. Sure, it was pretty low risk because by that time it was a 5th round pick. But the question still remains, was Hundley a piece of brass covered in turd that simply needed to be polished by MM, or was he just a turd from day one? Based on his play at this stage of his career, I am starting to think it is the latter. 

Question 2: Regardless of whether the finger is pointed at TT or MM, why was Hundley in the position to be the 2nd QB on what we would like to believe is a Super Bowl ready team? For me (and I have brought this up many times before), this is the biggest complaint I have--that Hundley was kept as this team's No. 2 QB, whether known by TT that he can't play or known by MM over the course of 3 years that he can't play. Now, admittedly, because it looks like Rodgers is KIA for the entire year it doesn't really matter, but had Rodgers gone out for 2, 3, 4 weeks and we just needed to tread water and even go 2-1, 2-2 over that stretch or better depending on our schedule, that's where you need a proven vet QB on a championship-aspiring team to be ready to step in, not a 5th round, developmental project. Keep Hundley as QB 3 if you want and don't waste a roster spot on Callahan. I want a "Doug Peterson" backing up Aaron Rodgers, a guy in his mid-30s who has been around the block, maybe started here and there and at least had some sort of a "prime" prior in his career. We were playing with fire from day one when it was Hundley or bust at QB 2. TT knows it, MM knows it. And now that it is going bust before their very eyes, we have to live with those decisions. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, packfanfb said:

As an initial matter, I am not absolving MM of liability here. Pretty much everyone here knows my feelings about MM, they aren't overly flattering. 

The Hundley point raises two things for me, one you touched on and one you didn't:

Question 1: Could TT have foreseen that Hundley was going to be this bad and if not, is it all on MM for not developing him? -- I don't think this is 100% in either direction. I would agree that MM has "not developed" Hundley, but I also believe in the fact that some QBs are born with the requirements to play at this level and some aren't. I think we are getting a glimpse that Hundley is the latter. He doesn't have it "upstairs" or "between the eyes." He can't read defenses, can't anticipate, can't cycle through progressions or generally execute the other "mental" aspects of the game. So the question becomes, can those attributes be taught or not? I think those attributes can be "developed" and grow over time of course but there has to be a foundation there. This brings us full-circle to Hundley's draft scouting reports where these EXACT same problems plagued him at UCLA. He had the physical attributes of a 1st round pick but the mental attributes of an UDFA. So, these problems were open and apparent to TT when he drafted Hundley. Sure, it was pretty low risk because by that time it was a 5th round pick. But the question still remains, was Hundley a piece of brass covered in turd that simply needed to be polished by MM, or was he just a turd from day one? Based on his play at this stage of his career, I am starting to think it is the latter. 

Question 2: Regardless of whether the finger is pointed at TT or MM, why was Hundley in the position to be the 2nd QB on what we would like to believe is a Super Bowl ready team? For me (and I have brought this up many times before), this is the biggest complaint I have--that Hundley was kept as this team's No. 2 QB, whether known by TT that he can't play or known by MM over the course of 3 years that he can't play. Now, admittedly, because it looks like Rodgers is KIA for the entire year it doesn't really matter, but had Rodgers gone out for 2, 3, 4 weeks and we just needed to tread water and even go 2-1, 2-2 over that stretch or better depending on our schedule, that's where you need a proven vet QB on a championship-aspiring team to be ready to step in, not a 5th round, developmental project. Keep Hundley as QB 3 if you want and don't waste a roster spot on Callahan. I want a "Doug Peterson" backing up Aaron Rodgers, a guy in his mid-30s who has been around the block, maybe started here and there and at least had some sort of a "prime" prior in his career. We were playing with fire from day one when it was Hundley or bust at QB 2. TT knows it, MM knows it. And now that it is going bust before their very eyes, we have to live with those decisions. 

Couldn't agree with you more! In a QB-centered league, having an experienced vet backup is absolutely necessary.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:
1 hour ago, JBURGE25 said:

Getting a good vet to come live in Green Bay, Wisconsin to sit knowing they are ONLY going to play with an injury to 12? Is it just me who thinks that is hard?

There are ten teams in the league that can't find a competent starter. 

So I'll take that as a no, I'm not the only one then

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, JBURGE25 said:

So I'll take that as a no, I'm not the only one then

That’s why I don’t particularly blame Ted and I DO blame Mike. Ted took the best route possible for a cheap, competent, backup QB. Mike had 2.5 years to get Hundley ready. I understand this CBA has made training difficult. But Hundley’s a dumpster fire next to a flaming bags of dog poo factory made of cardboard. Mike, “I MADE AARON BROOKS GOOD”, McCarthy shouldve seen this coming a mile away. He’s got three jobs; be a head coach, call the offensive plays, develop the QBs. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, ChaRisMa said:

That’s why I don’t particularly blame Ted and I DO blame Mike. Ted took the best route possible for a cheap, competent, backup QB. Mike had 2.5 years to get Hundley ready. I understand this CBA has made training difficult. But Hundley’s a dumpster fire next to a flaming bags of dog poo factory made of cardboard. Mike, “I MADE AARON BROOKS GOOD”, McCarthy shouldve seen this coming a mile away. He’s got three jobs; be a head coach, call the offensive plays, develop the QBs. 

Understand your point but: "Be the head coach" and "call the offensive plays" are two tasks that are each a full time job on a lot of teams.

I hate watching Hundley play. He's been awful so far, but we do need to give the kid some reps. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Understand your point but: "Be the head coach" and "call the offensive plays" are two tasks that are each a full time job on a lot of teams.

I hate watching Hundley play. He's been awful so far, but we do need to give the kid some reps. 

I agree on your counterpoint. But it is Mikes choice to call the plays. It’s also his specialty to build QBs. Yeah, it’s probably a lot. I get why Mike is overweight. Lots of stress eating in the McCarthy household late at night while he’s figuring out how to give Cobb wildcat snaps. I think his staff handles players well and chemistry is great and Ted intentionally stays on the safe side with personalities as well. Behind every great coach is a great staff. It’s true.

Its this idea that Ted could’ve or should’ve known to fix this problem prior to the year by throwing resources at QB that is absurd to me. No one was talking about needing a veteran. Everyone was giddy to see Hundley. The guy who was supposed to know Hundley best is McCarthy. His QB, his offense, his playcall, his QB camp, his offseason and training camp program. His failure. And I’m sure if Hundley doesn’t improve Mike will take all the blame because he’s legit like that. All I’m saying is, someone’s credibility is gonna have to take the hit if things continue to flounder. It should be Mikes. And vice versa, if we win two of the next three McCarthy deserves the credit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:
16 hours ago, ChaRisMa said:

That’s why I don’t particularly blame Ted and I DO blame Mike. Ted took the best route possible for a cheap, competent, backup QB. Mike had 2.5 years to get Hundley ready. I understand this CBA has made training difficult. But Hundley’s a dumpster fire next to a flaming bags of dog poo factory made of cardboard. Mike, “I MADE AARON BROOKS GOOD”, McCarthy shouldve seen this coming a mile away. He’s got three jobs; be a head coach, call the offensive plays, develop the QBs. 

Understand your point but: "Be the head coach" and "call the offensive plays" are two tasks that are each a full time job on a lot of teams.

I hate watching Hundley play. He's been awful so far, but we do need to give the kid some reps. 

Yupp. There was no other path this could go with Rodgers taking all the reps in practice lol.

It's funny, the thing I'm not mad at Ted about is the backup QB situation. I'm mad about the rest of the team 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, ChaRisMa said:

That’s why I don’t particularly blame Ted and I DO blame Mike. Ted took the best route possible for a cheap, competent, backup QB. Mike had 2.5 years to get Hundley ready. I understand this CBA has made training difficult. But Hundley’s a dumpster fire next to a flaming bags of dog poo factory made of cardboard. Mike, “I MADE AARON BROOKS GOOD”, McCarthy shouldve seen this coming a mile away. He’s got three jobs; be a head coach, call the offensive plays, develop the QBs. 

Hundley looks like a competent QB until he comes under pressure. You can't develop someone's head.

Watching him in TC and preseason I have no issue with Mac's confidence in him. He'll either get comfortable back there and deliver some throws like he did in the 2nd half in Chi and the first drive of the game Sunday, or he'll keep himself from getting a 2nd contract in the league by second guessing and panicking. He's got issues only he can fix IMO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Hundley looks like a competent QB until he comes under pressure. You can't develop someone's head.

Watching him in TC and preseason I have no issue with Mac's confidence in him. He'll either get comfortable back there and deliver some throws like he did in the 2nd half in Chi and the first drive of the game Sunday, or he'll keep himself from getting a 2nd contract in the league by second guessing and panicking. He's got issues only he can fix IMO.

Very much this.  It's insane to hold Hundley's issues against Mike McCarthy.  You can only simulate pressure to a certain extent in practice.  There was no way to know that Hundley was going to crumple under pressure as badly as he has.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I definitely "blame" MM for not recognizing Hundley's limitations.  Sure, Hindley looks decent when his first read is open and he is not getting pressured.  You can say the exact same thing about Trevor Simean, Brock Osweiler, Blake Bortles, DeShone Kizer, and pretty much every other terrible QB in the league.  Even more than failing to identify Hundley as a terrible QB, the true failure of MM/TT was not bringing in a legit QB to backup Hundley when Rodgers went down.  By doing that, they put the team in a position where there was no option other than to sink or swim with Hundley.  I can't see that as anything other than negligence.  Given how dumbed down (and ineffective) the offense has been with Hundley running it, the idea that a new QB could not execute a similar gameplan with limited preparation seems absurd.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said:

I definitely "blame" MM for not recognizing Hundley's limitations.  Sure, Hindley looks decent when his first read is open and he is not getting pressured.  You can say the exact same thing about Trevor Simean, Brock Osweiler, Blake Bortles, DeShone Kizer, and pretty much every other terrible QB in the league.  Even more than failing to identify Hundley as a terrible QB, the true failure of MM/TT was not bringing in a legit QB to backup Hundley when Rodgers went down.  By doing that, they put the team in a position where there was no option other than to sink or swim with Hundley.  I can't see that as anything other than negligence.  Given how dumbed down (and ineffective) the offense has been with Hundley running it, the idea that a new QB could not execute a similar gameplan with limited preparation seems absurd.

That's about where I'm at.  Even if you don't think McCarthy deserves any blame and had absolutely no way to know that Hundley simply isn't a good QB at all after 3 years (which seems absurd to me) They have still had some good tape on him since the Minnesota game.  The only thing that makes sense is they are ok with Hundleys play or think they can fix him.  If they didn't feel that way they would have gone to Callahan and if they don't think Callahan can do any better then they screwed up by bringing him up as the back up instead of someone else.  To me it looks like they are basically tanking the season because of stubbornness insisting they were right on Hundley to begin with. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...