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The DLine and Young's Return


MKnight82

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33 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

But I don't consider Cosmi a bust. He's a young player that has played well when healthy but consistently gets hurt. I get "availability is the best ability" but at the same time I think its unfair to label a player a bust for getting injured. These are still two very young players with plenty of time to grow. 

Plenty of players have the bust label due to inability to stay healthy. RG3 is a relevant example to this team. He was OROY and then did nothing for the rest of his career.

I guess the point is that, while some still don't feel the label is accurate, it is undeniable that neither player have lived up to their draft position and availability is a huge reason why. 

He has time to undo the label, but it is fair to call him a bust at this point. 

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18 hours ago, Slappy Mc said:

Plenty of players have the bust label due to inability to stay healthy. RG3 is a relevant example to this team. He was OROY and then did nothing for the rest of his career.

I guess the point is that, while some still don't feel the label is accurate, it is undeniable that neither player have lived up to their draft position and availability is a huge reason why. 

He has time to undo the label, but it is fair to call him a bust at this point. 

I just don't agree with calling Chase a bust. DROY and then had a down year last year sack wise, but was still productive in stopping the run game, forcing fumbles, and also had a lot of pressures. He's young and still has plenty of time to prove his worth and is far too early to be calling him a bust. 

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1 hour ago, Scott Land said:

I just don't agree with calling Chase a bust. DROY and then had a down year last year sack wise, but was still productive in stopping the run game, forcing fumbles, and also had a lot of pressures. He's young and still has plenty of time to prove his worth and is far too early to be calling him a bust. 

He's almost at the end of his rookie contract. You comfortable giving him a new contract next year for big money? 

Again, not saying he can't turn it around, but the label is fair right now. 

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1 hour ago, Slappy Mc said:

He's almost at the end of his rookie contract. You comfortable giving him a new contract next year for big money? 

Again, not saying he can't turn it around, but the label is fair right now. 

I wouldn't say 2 years is almost the end of his rookie contract, he still has next year and his 5th year option. I'm perfectly fine with giving him his 5th year option and the extension for after his 5th year will dependent on next years play. Push comes to shove you franchise tag him after his 5th year if you can't get a deal done. You don't have to give him a huge contract right now. There's plenty of time to decide what he deserves to be paid. 

But yes, I'd be comfortable paying him right now if we had to pay him right now, but we don't. 

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1 minute ago, Scott Land said:

I wouldn't say 2 years is almost the end of his rookie contract, he still has next year and his 5th year option. I'm perfectly fine with giving him his 5th year option and the extension for after his 5th year will dependent on next years play. Push comes to shove you franchise tag him after his 5th year if you can't get a deal done. You don't have to give him a huge contract right now. There's plenty of time to decide what he deserves to be paid. 

But yes, I'd be comfortable paying him right now if we had to pay him right now, but we don't. 

No offense, but that is very bad business practice. You definitely haven't gotten the draft position value for his 3 years he has been in the NFL. 

Talent is completely different than production. He has not produced. Right now if we had to extend him, you try to trade him for whatever you can get. Fortunately he has some time to prove he isn't a bust. 

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1 minute ago, Slappy Mc said:

No offense, but that is very bad business practice. You definitely haven't gotten the draft position value for his 3 years he has been in the NFL. 

Talent is completely different than production. He has not produced. Right now if we had to extend him, you try to trade him for whatever you can get. Fortunately he has some time to prove he isn't a bust. 

And what would you trade him for? Because if you trade him "for whatever you can get" and he goes and does what everyone knows he's capable of, you're going to feel real stupid. 

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5 minutes ago, Scott Land said:

And what would you trade him for? Because if you trade him "for whatever you can get" and he goes and does what everyone knows he's capable of, you're going to feel real stupid. 

Not really man. Plenty of players never live up to hype. Think of how many athletic freaks have busted. Just because he has potential doesn't mean he will be good. 

I want him to be good. I believe he can be good. I believe he can stay healthy too, but it is just very bad business go give a second contract to someone on potential. Especially when they have missed over half the games in their career.

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23 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

Not really man. Plenty of players never live up to hype. Think of how many athletic freaks have busted. Just because he has potential doesn't mean he will be good. 

I want him to be good. I believe he can be good. I believe he can stay healthy too, but it is just very bad business go give a second contract to someone on potential. Especially when they have missed over half the games in their career.

I think you're focusing on the the wrong information. He doesn't need to be paid for at least one if not 2 more years. I said I would pay him now, but that's just me talking if I had to. We don't have to pay him for 2 more years. If in 2 years he still hasn't lived up to any expectations, then move on. 

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3 hours ago, Scott Land said:

I think you're focusing on the the wrong information. He doesn't need to be paid for at least one if not 2 more years. I said I would pay him now, but that's just me talking if I had to. We don't have to pay him for 2 more years. If in 2 years he still hasn't lived up to any expectations, then move on. 

I will agree to disagree. Contract situation aside, you are holding out hope that he turns it around without acknowledging the fact that he has in fact been a tremendous disappointment his first 3 years. Injuries and poor play have led to the label that he brandishes. It is something that is earned and deserved at this juncture. He will have to earn the right to not carry the label. Hopefully he can get a good start on that this Sunday.

 

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On 12/13/2022 at 2:20 PM, Scott Land said:

If you're willing to call Chase a bust would you be willing to call Montez a bust too? 4th season and was a first round pick that has yet to get double digit sacks. I get that you're saying this because of all of the hype surrounding him coming into the draft, just a curious question. 

Guys.... people who know football are having ACTUAL discussions on if Chase should play over Toohill or JSW.  That is legit crazy. He was drafted #2, I know it's hard to admit - but he's underperforming and now scared to step on the field. He was a top 3 pick.

If he gets his head right, he will be an All Pro.... but it's not right. I love his bravado, his passion, and energy. Watching him his rookie year was special, my god was he special.

Then he stopped being special.....

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13 minutes ago, Troublez said:

Guys.... people who know football are having ACTUAL discussions on if Chase should play over Toohill or JSW.  That is legit crazy. He was drafted #2, I know it's hard to admit - but he's underperforming and now scared to step on the field. He was a top 3 pick.

If he gets his head right, he will be an All Pro.... but it's not right. I love his bravado, his passion, and energy. Watching him his rookie year was special, my god was he special.

Then he stopped being special.....

I partly blame his Momma for preaching to him --sacks make the money. You need to get sacks. Put a lot of undue pressure on him . We all want to please Momma .

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3 hours ago, Troublez said:

Guys.... people who know football are having ACTUAL discussions on if Chase should play over Toohill or JSW.  That is legit crazy. He was drafted #2, I know it's hard to admit - but he's underperforming and now scared to step on the field. He was a top 3 pick.

If he gets his head right, he will be an All Pro.... but it's not right. I love his bravado, his passion, and energy. Watching him his rookie year was special, my god was he special.

Then he stopped being special.....

Who is having these discussions? All I’ve seen is easing him back in and letting him get comfortable. 

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6 hours ago, Troublez said:

I've heard Sam Fortier, Logan Paulson, John Keim, and Sheehan discuss this...

You've genuinely heard these guys wonder if Toohill or JSW are better? I listen to Sheehan nearly every day and haven't heard him say it once. Combined, Toohill and JSW have two sacks on the year and they've both played quite a bit. I get some fans don't like Young anymore for whatever reason but this is getting ridiculous. 

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