Week 12: CHI Bears vs NY Jets

[xrade]

11 minutes ago, ekill08x said:

I still believe the best way to actually have a chance at drafting a franchise QB is taking someone in the mid rounds with athleticism and potential and letting them sit and learn for at least 2 years. 

Where a QB is chosen in the draft is somewhat irrelevant.  How he is developed, the team he goes to, and the O scheme he is put into are bigger factors.

Josh Allen was a FRP and went to a decent team.  Dak a 4th, Russ a 3rd, Brady 6th, Mahomes 1st, Rodgers 1st.  None of them started from day 1 (not sure about Allen).  They were picked and allowed to learn before hitting the field because the teams had that luxury and the Jets never did.

The point is that if there is a QB JD thinks can be a good starter for this team BEFORE he needs to actually play, then draft him.  Whether it is this year in round one - seven or next year or the year after that.  Grab the guy before you need him.  We can only hope MFW affords us that luxury.

[ekill08x]

4 minutes ago, xrade said:

Where a QB is chosen in the draft is somewhat irrelevant.  How he is developed, the team he goes to, and the O scheme he is put into are bigger factors.

Josh Allen was a FRP and went to a decent team.  Dak a 4th, Russ a 3rd, Brady 6th, Mahomes 1st, Rodgers 1st.  None of them started from day 1 (not sure about Allen).  They were picked and allowed to learn before hitting the field because the teams had that luxury and the Jets never did.

The point is that if there is a QB JD thinks can be a good starter for this team BEFORE he needs to actually play, then draft him.  Whether it is this year in round one - seven or next year or the year after that.  Grab the guy before you need him.  We can only hope MFW affords us that luxury.

I dont disagree at all I just said mid rounds because we are still rounding out this roster and its not 100% done. Its a good football team but if we can sign a veteran and or MFW is a real option I just personally like the idea of looking for more of a diamond in the rough RIGHT NOW. Its going to be a tricky offseason if Mike White plays the rest of the way and looks good, playoffs or not. Ideally you dont want ridiculous money tied to the QB position and you already have the QB making $9m guaranteed for the next two years. Not so easy, but if MW looks like he can be our guy so be it. I just want us to have someone lol. IDC who it is anymore. 

[xrade]

19 minutes ago, ekill08x said:

I just personally like the idea of looking for more of a diamond in the rough RIGHT NOW

IIRC during Macs interview with that search team which included Tom Wolf, Mac was asked by Wolf when do you pick a QB.  Not sure what Mac's answer was, but Wolf replied "every year".  So your point is kind of valid.  Keep picking a QB until you get one to stick.  Then pick some more.  I do not believe it has to be that drastic, but even if MFW or a vet is the guy to lead this team for the next couple of years, keep searching for his replacement.

[Dr.O]

We’re winning the SB and no one or stat can change my mind

[Rockice_8]

1 hour ago, ekill08x said:

100% agree. Zach doesn't have the ability to process or navigate the pocket as he goes through the progressions. I still maintain the stance that if he sits next year he has a chance to turn this around when he gets his chance, but if we throw him out there again we wont see a difference this year. Next year he should come into camp with a chip on his shoulder but I still think he ends up on the bench. Just too many things that he struggles with to play right now. White was just calm and in control. It was nice. Whether he is the guy or not, the fact that we got that from a guy people wanted to cut this summer, over our #2 overall pick is concerning. I still believe the best way to actually have a chance at drafting a franchise QB is taking someone in the mid rounds with athleticism and potential and letting them sit and learn for at least 2 years. 

Agreed.  I think the "getting Zack back on the field" is just coaches speak to pander to him a little.  It would take a massive White melt down like multiple Zach vs NE games I'm talking for them to go back to Zach at this point this year.

I agree with the grooming of a mid rounder.  Given that we are fairly deep on both sides of the ball we could use a 3rd or 4th on that Dak-lite QB with high upside that could use some development.  I think that would be smart.

We really need to see how this plays out the rest of the year with White though before we'll know what the best option is.  Ideally he plays well and is the starter moving forward with Zack still developing along with that mid rounder.  If there are questions about White then we need to look into the vet route to bridge to Zack or that mid rounder next year (Carr, Minch, Tannehill, Jimmy G etc.).

I think those are the likely two outcomes but I think whether it's White or a FA vet taking that mid rounder that we can groom makes a ton of sense.  Not sure Zach is fixable at this point.

[xrade]

2 hours ago, Rockice_8 said:

Not sure Zach is fixable at this point.

I think he is. It’s just a matter of when.  I would think differently if he did not have the physical skills he has. Right now it is all in his head. He may just need to mature a bit out of the limelight. We have him for two more years before we need to decide on his option and he is not going to be traded in that time.

[Rockice_8]

15 hours ago, xrade said:

I think he is. It’s just a matter of when.  I would think differently if he did not have the physical skills he has. Right now it is all in his head. He may just need to mature a bit out of the limelight. We have him for two more years before we need to decide on his option and he is not going to be traded in that time.

I went back and watched some tape from BYU and he's always been a bit erratic with his accuracy.  I think we all saw 70% completion and amazing throws on the run and all of the tools but when you look closer there is legit concern there.  His accuracy issues were back in college not so much where passes weren't getting completed but poor throws that limited the run after catch which is key for this offense.

I have serious reservations he'll ever get that worked out.  Josh Allen is an outlier, not the norm when it comes to fixing accuracy problems. 

[Big T]

23 hours ago, ekill08x said:

No offense to LC but IDGAF whether he was impressed or not. The film is clear, Mike White processes at twice the speed and goes through progressions very quickly in comparison to what we've gotten. That has nothing to do with the defense we played and that is by far the biggest take away. Love LC but if hes not impressed after watching the QB play we've gotten, that dude has taken too many hits to the dome. 

I would like White to succeed, but his track record isn't the greatest. Lets see how it all works out going forward. The Vikings are 20th in the league against the pass. So White in theory should have a good game and lead the Jets to victory considering the D we have. But lets see what happens and see if he throws 3-4 int's. I hope not. It would be nice to see the Jets make the playoffs. I believe they have to win 4 of the next 6 games. But winning against the Vikings would go a long way in establishing them as a serious contender for the playoffs.

[jetfuel34]

1 hour ago, Rockice_8 said:

I went back and watched some tape from BYU and he's always been a bit erratic with his accuracy.  I think we all saw 70% completion and amazing throws on the run and all of the tools but when you look closer there is legit concern there.  His accuracy issues were back in college not so much where passes weren't getting completed but poor throws that limited the run after catch which is key for this offense.

I have serious reservations he'll ever get that worked out.  Josh Allen is an outlier, not the norm when it comes to fixing accuracy problems. 

Funny I was saying how poor his throws where in wide open windows still making the WR work when the jets drafted him. I liked nothing about Wilson. The first red flag for me was he never went against a good D. His best D he went against was Costal Carolina. Just think about that. This is why Tre Lance is going to be bad too. The 49ers missed on him. You can put that down in the books too. I wanted T Law or keep Sam. I still think if we went with Sam Darnold last year I think Darnold would have turned the corner. He was given the worse possible situation and was the youngest QB EVER to start an NFL game at a young 20 years old with no WR and no OL. I'm very happy with White now and think he will be the guy that we needed all this time. This game Sunday he will show why he is the future QB of the Jets. I just hope JD is smart to draft a QB and develop these guys. You should always have a good young QB waiting to take over. I'm with the old GM Wolf. You draft a QB alomst ever year and see what they can do for a year or 2 on the team. 

[xrade]

2 hours ago, jetfuel34 said:

The first red flag for me was he never went against a good D.

Unless a QB plays in a Power 5 conference, they won't face a legit D.  How many "good" D's did Josh Allen face?  How many QB's that faced good D's constantly are a major success?  I am specifically referring to bama and OSU QB's.  I think you also have to look at the O Zach was playing in at BYU.  Who were his WR's, RB's and OL?  Were they FRP's?  Its all relitive.

 

2 hours ago, jetfuel34 said:

His best D he went against was Costal Carolina

And he played OK in that game.  19-32-1, 240 Yds, 1 TD.

2 hours ago, jetfuel34 said:

I still think if we went with Sam Darnold last year I think Darnold would have turned the corner

There was nothing then and nothing now to even remotely suggest Sam would have turned a corner.  He really is/was no different than Zach.  Some of his int's were just god awful like he was seeing ghosts or something.  How long do allow a QB to bring a team down?  The Jets had to move on.

[jetsfan4life51]

Common denominator has always been rushing the QB and not supporting them. Sanchez had the OL and run game but never consistent WRs and he had a huge regression when guys like Dougie and Tone Time regressed. Sam never had an OL or weapons and was too young. Zach didn’t have a great OL to start and he never had any competition. 
 

Bring in a talented KJ Jefferson who has faced SEC defenses and give him 1-2 years on the bench. MLF ain’t going anywhere soon. He can groom him. 

[GangGreen420]

 

7 hours ago, Rockice_8 said:

I went back and watched some tape from BYU and he's always been a bit erratic with his accuracy.  I think we all saw 70% completion and amazing throws on the run and all of the tools but when you look closer there is legit concern there.  His accuracy issues were back in college not so much where passes weren't getting completed but poor throws that limited the run after catch which is key for this offense.

I have serious reservations he'll ever get that worked out.  Josh Allen is an outlier, not the norm when it comes to fixing accuracy problems. 

His timing and anticipation were not great. He was not throwing to receivers in stride and was often too late getting the ball out. That’s being one of if not the least pressured QBs in the country.
 

Someone posted an article on Reddit too about the competition he faced and how the numbers are night and day when he faced a decent school. They did the same thing with Drew Lock and the results were bad in both cases. I’ll have to look for it 

[xrade]

2 hours ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

Common denominator has always been rushing the QB and not supporting them

Which is why JD pushed for that 6 year deal. He knows that owners are impatient. This team needed a complete tear down a rebuild. Fans are impatient also. If the screams from the fans and media get loud enough…..

In the end, a GM feels he does not have the luxury of developing a FRP. They are somewhat forced to play them. Which is why it is very important for MFW or a vet to play well enough to not lose while Zach or a draft pick develops. Successful teams do that. 

[Rockice_8]

1 hour ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

Common denominator has always been rushing the QB and not supporting them. Sanchez had the OL and run game but never consistent WRs and he had a huge regression when guys like Dougie and Tone Time regressed. Sam never had an OL or weapons and was too young. Zach didn’t have a great OL to start and he never had any competition. 
 

Bring in a talented KJ Jefferson who has faced SEC defenses and give him 1-2 years on the bench. MLF ain’t going anywhere soon. He can groom him. 

Honestly I think MLF wants a pocket passer.  If he wanted a dual threat guy there were two there for the taking yet he went with a guy that was more of a guy he thought could be groomed to three step drop and get the ball out or PA off of not run RPO style.  My thought is maybe a guy like Van Dyke or Penix in the later rounds? 

[ekill08x]

The "playing real defenses" argument has a lot of holes. The competition you face is relative to your surrounding cast as well. Zach played in a lower conference but also didn't exactly play with studs either. QBs from Bama, OSU, USC, Georgia, Clemson play elite defenses but they also are always loaded with talent and those experiences don't always translate to the NFL. We've seen many OSU, Bama, and USC QBs bust, in fact more so than actually work out. It really has little to do with where they come from or who they play and more about how they are developed and coached at the pro level. Even doing all the right things doesn't always work.

Finding a QB is honestly very difficult and we finally have the GM and scouting department that knows how to find talent yet it still doesn't guarantee anything. Development is very crucial but it all comes down to the individual overall. Some guys just take a lot longer to get it, to learn how to process fast enough while also having consistent technique. These are the two areas Zach is well below average. I see nothing wrong in admitting that the two other QBs on the roster are well ahead of him in these areas and letting Zach reset and work on getting much better. 

Now I don't know if Mike White will consistently play well enough over the course of the next few games, but if he is operating the offense and moving the football that alone is going to help us control the game better and give our defense the rest it needs it will give us a chance to win any game. Putting Zach back out there this season really benefits nobody. The two major issues holding him back aren't going to magically have a vast improvement over night. Zach's focus should be on practice, being a good teammate and leader and preparing to have a very noticeable offseason going into camp. Everything else will work itself out.