QB Talk Once Again.... sigh

[NJerseypaint]

6 minutes ago, Mattmanz said:

What's the consensus on Jordan Love? Been sitting behind Rodgers, knows some nuances of the system with lafleur as HC.

More questions instead of answers. We need a real answer at QB.

[jonyankee1ny]

1 hour ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

Mid 30s QB allows us to compete and develop a QB at the same time. Not sure what people don’t get about that. 

Another big factor to consider is guys like Wilson and Moore could really use a veteran stable QB (rather than developmental players we have no idea about like the QB's that'll be around our first rd pick/Love etc) to help get them to the next level in development. I'll be the first to tell you our oline sucked but it is also probably very difficult to switch from Flacco who can barely move, to Wilson who you have no idea where he'll be in the pocket, to White and then back to Wilson etc 

We need stability. It impacts the whole team. Can't believe I'm saying this but sign me up for Derek Carr. As of right now I don't see a semi realistic better option 

[Mattmanz]

8 minutes ago, NJerseypaint said:

More questions instead of answers. We need a real answer at QB.

A fair point. I view him as a backup plan if Jimmy G and Carr don't are unobtainable.

[Colt45fool]

17 hours ago, ukjets21 said:

He's literally just quit on his team after being benched.

 

I also think Carr is QB purgatory, if he was a better QB then the Raiders wouldn't be regular losers. Sure with our current team we'll likely do better than they have but don't think Carr or Jimmy G are anything other than short term starters until you find a better replacement in the draft.

I disagree. Carr is just good enough at the right time to be the perfect fit for us. This team at its best is going to run the football and play good defense. If Carr can make plays on third down and in the fourth quarter, he'll play a high-end Mark Sanchez role for us. And for what it's worth Sanchez was money on 3rd down / 4th quarter. 

Las Vegas on 3rd down conversions %:

2019: 7th
2020: 5th
2021: 22nd
2022: 19th

And for what it's worth, 2022 is in a new offense and 2021 is with two different HCs. Carr has more career fourth quarter comebacks than Brett Favre, Eli Manning, Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, etc. Carr's good against adversity. Give me Carr. Jimmy gets hurt all of the time. Minshew is a bum. Seattle won't let Geno go. Brady and Rodgers are expensive, old and not worth it. Keep the offense in place. 

(Another option that would be interesting is Sam, but y'all aren't ready for that discussion LOL.) 

Edited January 4, 2023 by Colt45fool

[doumeyer]

7 hours ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

Mid 30s QB allows us to compete and develop a QB at the same time. Not sure what people don’t get about that. 

Where and how are we going find a QB TO develop. We have been doing this for 18 years first Sanchez, than Smith, than Darnold, than Wilson, all these guys where super high draft pick except for Smith, who was a high second round pick. We got great young talent on our roster now and nobody who can get them the ball  If the Jacksonville and Seahawks  games weren't a wake up call I don't know what is. And What took Salah a year and a half to realize Wilson, was terrible.

Look I am just as dumb as anybody else who bought into the Jets hype, after being a Jets fan for 65 years I should have known better.

 

[KimuraGod]

38 minutes ago, doumeyer said:

Where and how are we going find a QB TO develop. We have been doing this for 18 years first Sanchez, than Smith, than Darnold, than Wilson, all these guys where super high draft pick except for Smith, who was a high second round pick. We got great young talent on our roster now and nobody who can get them the ball  If the Jacksonville and Seahawks  games weren't a wake up call I don't know what is. And What took Salah a year and a half to realize Wilson, was terrible.

Look I am just as dumb as anybody else who bought into the Jets hype, after being a Jets fan for 65 years I should have known better.

 

We’ve tried (and failed!) with drafting a qb high and starting them straight away. How about drafting a guy and letting them sit and learn from a vet like Jimmy, Carr etc. 

I just want someone with immense potential not some career back up type. I’d rather swing and miss on a Dak, Hurts type qb than go for a guy like James Morgan who was awful and had no upside other than ‘good backup’. We can take a risk if we have a veteran starting. 
 

No point drafting a qb high in the first and rehashing the same mistake we’ve done for the last two decades

[ukjets21]

7 hours ago, Colt45fool said:

I disagree. Carr is just good enough at the right time to be the perfect fit for us. This team at its best is going to run the football and play good defense. If Carr can make plays on third down and in the fourth quarter, he'll play a high-end Mark Sanchez role for us. And for what it's worth Sanchez was money on 3rd down / 4th quarter. 

Las Vegas on 3rd down conversions %:

2019: 7th
2020: 5th
2021: 22nd
2022: 19th

And for what it's worth, 2022 is in a new offense and 2021 is with two different HCs. Carr has more career fourth quarter comebacks than Brett Favre, Eli Manning, Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, etc. Carr's good against adversity. Give me Carr. Jimmy gets hurt all of the time. Minshew is a bum. Seattle won't let Geno go. Brady and Rodgers are expensive, old and not worth it. Keep the offense in place. 

(Another option that would be interesting is Sam, but y'all aren't ready for that discussion LOL.) 

The reason these QBs end up as purgatory though is that the money you pay them is the reason why you lose the rest of the team that they need to actually win. Carr is also a league leader in interceptions. I don't want Minshew at all, he's just another Mike White option. Jimmy will be a FA so at least we don't waste draft picks in the process.

[JetsandI]

For the same price.

Gardner Minshew >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mike White.

 

If Jets decide to copy Eagles offense.

Minshew >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> White as a full time starter if necessary.

 

If Jets stay with the Shanahan philosophy then mobility and health are bonus.

Minshew >>>>>>>>> White.

 

In summary, Minshew is clearly an upgrade to White, not another White option. Heck, Brock Purdy with his noodle arm carries 49ers.

 

 

[Bobby816]

White to me has shown he can't run this offense for us to be a playoff team. What we saw from him is the best of him and that's a 1-4 QB that has a line of averaging 59% 298yds with throwing for 3 TDs and 4 INTs. That's not good enough for us.

Here's what I think happens and is the most realistic. I'm not saying this is what I want to happen. It's what I think will happen.

 

I think we let Flacco and White go, they're UFA remember. We keep Wilson as our backup QB and we sign Jimmy G as an UFA. Maybe draft a QB late to develop and keep on the PS. Remember that most teams only carry 2 QBs. We're odd that we have 3 that actually play for us (4 actually this season).

 

Jimmy G is realistic bc he's an UFA and is pretty much a lock to leave SF with Purdy and Lance there. Him being familiar with our staff and knowing the basics of our system, just makes sense for us and him. The issues with Jimmy G are that he wont be cheap bc UFA starting QBs rarely are. But at least we wouldn't have to trade and give up draft picks for him. He's often injured. He has limitations being he's pretty much only above average. But that might be all we need. And he's 31. So he's not exactly in his prime.

 

But he should be able to hit the ground running here with the system assuming we keep MLF. We get AVT and Becton back on the OL. We get Hall back at RB. That's 3 big things for a QB. Protection, a run game and a safety net in the RB screen game.

Jimmy G over the last 4 seasons with SF is averaging 68% 252yds a game with throwing 70 TDs to 34 INTs. Adding on 6 rushing TDs. Which is significantly better than anything we've gotten from our QBs in a long time.  Not incredible. But good enough like it is for SF with the way our team is built. We have a good defense and when healthy we have a good run game with enough weapons at WR and TE to help him.

 

So my prediction is our QB room is Jimmy G, Wilson and a mid/late round rookie.

[jetsfan4life51]

Jimmy G can also date NYC models and set up his “acting”  career. PSJ for the win. 

[jetsfan4life51]

24 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

So my prediction is our QB room is Jimmy G, Wilson and a mid/late round rookie.

Not sure. It sounds like Saleh and Woody aren’t seeing eye to eye on Zach. I think this team needs to cut bait and preserve the locker room. But then there’s also a possibility Woody gives a mandate picking between Zach and MLF, or downright firing him if he doesn’t behave. 
 

I would prefer Jimmy G/Carr, White and depending on Day 2 draft a developmental guy. Also totally fine going vet, White and drafting a QB the following year. If we get a vet for 3 years then let the 2024 pick sit 1.5-2 years and then good to go. Vet QB comes off the books when our 2nd-3rd round pick isn’t making money and we can afford to resign our guys like GW, AVT, Sauce, etc. 

[xrade]

43 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

So my prediction is our QB room is Jimmy G, Wilson and a mid/late round rookie.

Jimmy G, yes, but the idea of Zach backing him up is scary.  As you said, Jimmy gets hurt and misses games seemingly every year.  Do we really want Zach in the lineup next year for possible multiple games?  Get another vet or White to be the backup.  Relegate Zach to PS or trade.  If someone poaches him, so be it.  It would then be their headache.

[xrade]

A thing to keep in mind with any QB we may get is that the OL MUST be fixed.  And no, just Becton and AVT ain't it.  Becton is too much of a ?.  We need an OL overhaul or any QB we get will just be in the same mess we currently have.  If the OL isn't massively fixed, then don't waste resources on a QB that will just give this team more of the same.

[jetfuel34]

The only QB I want in here besides Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady would be Baker Mayfield. I'm not a fan of Gardner at all. I would rather go with Wilson or White who know the plays. Baker has shown what he can do and he has had a few months with McV with the Rams to really work as a QB. 

This is my list

1. Tom Brady ( I think we have a very good shot at getting him. He wants his TB12 thing to take off and no better place than NY. I think this is like a LeBron James move when he went to LA for his business stuff.)

2. Aaron Rodgers ( He is the one that I think is less than 10% we get him. I think he hangs it up after this year.)

3. Baker Mayfield ( He is still young and played really well with the Rams who are really beat up team. He would be a perfect fit for the Jets. I wanted him more than Darnold.)

I want nothing to do with Jimmy G or Carr. I think the prices to get them will be high and so will the contracts. I think Baker is easier just sign him toi a 2 or 3 year deal around 15 Mill. Then put the other money to Q. 

[Bobby816]

39 minutes ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

Not sure. It sounds like Saleh and Woody aren’t seeing eye to eye on Zach. I think this team needs to cut bait and preserve the locker room. But then there’s also a possibility Woody gives a mandate picking between Zach and MLF, or downright firing him if he doesn’t behave. 
 

I would prefer Jimmy G/Carr, White and depending on Day 2 draft a developmental guy. Also totally fine going vet, White and drafting a QB the following year. If we get a vet for 3 years then let the 2024 pick sit 1.5-2 years and then good to go. Vet QB comes off the books when our 2nd-3rd round pick isn’t making money and we can afford to resign our guys like GW, AVT, Sauce, etc. 

I don't agree. What we saw with White is exactly who you're getting. And that's not a good QB. That pretty much is his ceiling. There's still a higher ceiling with Wilson. The floor might is lower. But the ceiling is higher. Especially given he just finished year 2 and White is like 27 going into next year. So of course the maturity of White's game is better now. Wilson shouldn't go into next year at all in line to be the starter. I will 100% agree with that. We have to get a for sure starter in here that pushes him to backup and sit and learn and be the next man up. Jimmy G for me does that. Learning the system from a guy who's been in it for several seasons can only help Wilson as well. We have to remember how young Wilson is. It's not completely out that things can click for him. And if they do that will show in camp and such. His problems are fixable. You cant fix White's lack of mobility. You cant fix White's lack of arm strength. You cant fix his inability to make plays on the move. But you can fix Wilson's footwork. You can fix his decision making. You can fix his mechanics. And for me that's the difference. Also Wilson doesn't hold a ton of trade value right now, so there's no sense in trading him. If we sign a vet and Wilson sits on the bench all year then trade him next off season. But keep him as the backup with potential there. There's 0 potential in White. This is also completely leaving out that Wilson is actually under contract and White is an UFA. So keeping White will cost us a decent amount of money. So we're going to not only get a starting QB in here for a pretty big salary, but also give White a decent deal as a backup? No thank you. Give me the Jimmy G/Wilson route all day.