O-Line Talk: “LT, What Are They Even Good For?”

[AFF]

5 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I like that idea. We might even be able to add a quality C in the 3rd. That’s not unheard of. Ringo could be a game wrecker and really step the defense up. If we sign Brown, CB is really our only glaring weakness at a premium position. There are quality power D-linemen and ILBs to be had early in the second. This seems like a good ILB class. 

They’ll knock a few “needs” in FA with signing outside guys or our own.

Things would change quickly with say…resigning Bush/Edmunds and Kazee….cutting Jackson…and signing Payne/Gravedigger for NT.

Its just best guess at this point…things will be so much clearer 1st or 2nd week of April.

[CKSteeler]

I am in the minority in that I'm not really ready to give up on Dotson. He has legitimate talent and needs time. Or Moore, for that matter, even if his future isn't at LT (he probably should have been started at RT and given a few years on the bench to learn in the first place). People are writing Moore off, but the guy was always supposed to be a project. He was simply forced into action right away because of Banner never coming back. 

Continuity and coaching are huge for the OL. That first part is overlooked. Steelers have been shuffling pieces in and out over the last few seasons. 

I don't know if the current OL coach is the guy or not. Based on his track record in the league, I'm still inclined towards not. It's a better unit than last year, but I don't believe it's a unit that is playing better than the sum of its parts. And that's what a good/great OL does. Steelers did not have 5 superstars when the OL was good in 2016. 

I also remember a lot of people wanting to right off guys like Ramon Foster (who started at tackle), Marcus Gilbert, Max Starks etc. These guys were given time, changed positions in two of those cases, and proved their value. 

I think Moore can potentially move inside or to RT. I think Dotson will continue to grow if he stays on the field. He was a small school guy who has had FOUR different OL coaches since entering the league. Moore is also on his third OL coach in two seasons. 

So, for better or worse, I stick with the OL and even the OL coach for continuity's sake. Let the players grow, let them get some consistency in what they're learning and let them build their cohesion as a unit. I'm not going to pass on some stud if they are in there in the draft, but I'm not about shuffling or changing out half the unit again for the sake of it.

These are young guys combined with two veteran FA's. Give them time. Even Chuks, who I'm lukewarm on, is still only 25 years old. He doesn't even have his old man strength yet. I'd probably look at LT if anything, but I'm not writing Moore off as a potential contributor elsewhere.

Edited November 26, 2022 by CKSteeler

[Dcash4]

2 hours ago, AFF said:

my thought is due to position scarcity that Brown is worth it.

I do think this is the key. You are likely right about the Chiefs cap situation being the major reason he isn’t back, but the top end of FA always scares me. Don’t mind overpaying for a good player, thought. 

I’ll throw a wild card into play here for fun: Steelers trade for Tyron Smith. His lack of availability allowed them to see the rookie Tyler Smith to shine at LT. They are tight to the cap. He is older, expensive, and a bit injury prone…but that lowers the draft cost (from the team that shipped Amari Cooper for a 4th). 

[warfelg]

1 hour ago, Dcash4 said:

I do think this is the key. You are likely right about the Chiefs cap situation being the major reason he isn’t back, but the top end of FA always scares me. Don’t mind overpaying for a good player, thought. 

I’ll throw a wild card into play here for fun: Steelers trade for Tyron Smith. His lack of availability allowed them to see the rookie Tyler Smith to shine at LT. They are tight to the cap. He is older, expensive, and a bit injury prone…but that lowers the draft cost (from the team that shipped Amari Cooper for a 4th). 

If Dallas are most the cap hit and it were a conditional 2024 pick I’d do it. Hasn’t played a full season since 2015 so you would need a good insurance policy. 

[AFF]

2 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

I do think this is the key. You are likely right about the Chiefs cap situation being the major reason he isn’t back, but the top end of FA always scares me. Don’t mind overpaying for a good player, thought. 

I’ll throw a wild card into play here for fun: Steelers trade for Tyron Smith. His lack of availability allowed them to see the rookie Tyler Smith to shine at LT. They are tight to the cap. He is older, expensive, and a bit injury prone…but that lowers the draft cost (from the team that shipped Amari Cooper for a 4th). 

Bucs LT Donovan Smith…Bucs are in terrible cap situation next year and probably going to be in for long rebuild.

Smiths contract also voids after 2023 just like Tyron does but he’s younger.

[Dcash4]

7 hours ago, AFF said:

Bucs LT Donovan Smith…Bucs are in terrible cap situation next year and probably going to be in for long rebuild.

Smiths contract also voids after 2023 just like Tyron does but he’s younger.

Ohhh yeah. That’s a good one. You win!

[warfelg]

1 hour ago, Dcash4 said:

Ohhh yeah. That’s a good one. You win!

Donovan Smith feels like Villanueva2.0.  One of those steady, decent, but there’s better out there.  Tyron Smith is at least a stud (when he plays).

Edit - I would keep an eye on the Bucs in general. If Brady returns they are for sure going to rob Peter to pay Paul so to speak. But if Brady is gone I think it’s a fire sale. 

 

Other OTC teams you could point to include Tyler Lewan of the Titans (been hurt off and on, not worth that they are paying him with their positional needs and cap); Cam Robinson has a chance to be out there as a stop gap LT upgrade; of course I would be remiss not to mention Dillard.

 

As long as we don’t go into the draft with a glaring hole at a position I’m fine. If it’s LG upgrade and Moore at LT, cool. If it’s LT upgrade and battle at LG, cool. 

Edited November 26, 2022 by warfelg

[jebrick]

I would much rather see them get a real RT and move Chuks to LT and Moore to swing.  They will not do it.  Vorhees will go in the late 2nd or 3rd round because he is a lunchpailer.  Just does his job very well.  Would be a great LG.

[AFF]

I went them to get at least 1 starter in FA for the OL…just so they don’t force anything come draft day.

[warfelg]

23 minutes ago, AFF said:

I went them to get at least 1 starter in FA for the OL…just so they don’t force anything come draft day.

Same here. I want to be able to take BPA at our first three picks and not feel like we have to take a certain position. 

[mwalker]

I'd like to see something like:

Replace Canada.

Let Bush, Witherspoon, D.Watt, Sutton and Ogunjobi go (amongst others).
Trade Mitch or Mason for something.
Resign T.Edmunds - only if he'll do so at a reasonable price

In FA sign:
DL D.Payne (your new Heyward protege)
S C.Gardner-Johnson (so flexible - an upgrade on Sutton and Maulet)
WR M.Hardman (an upgrade on Sims in the slot and at KR)
Then a solid OL, someone like OG Nate Davis (he'll start)

Draft:
RD1  OT P.Johnson
RD2  CB E.Forbes
RD2  EDGE Z.Harrison 
RD3  LB I.Pace or D.Overshown
RD4  OC S.Van Pran or J.Schmitz
RD7  WR R.Jarrett
RD7  DL G.Hall

Too hard to project trades, but you'd love to see us pick up at least
one more pick somewhere along the way and possibly another for one 
of our back up QBs.



 


 

[43M]

If Im being honest, I dont see OL as our biggest need at this point.    Not that I wouldn't draft one early, but I feel like our defense really needs some attention.    Our offense is super young and inexperienced, and has room to grow.    There is far more upside on offense than defense going forward.   

I wouldn't be opposed to a defense heavy offseason, but it obviously depends how things fall.

[3rivers]

OL is crucial but in 2023 what do we do?  Moore could be a back  up, as well as Dotson.  C, RG and RT are decent IMO, nothing great but at times Chuks is a good pass protector . 

fire canada,  get the left side revamped and see how that turns out.  What ever happened to Green anyways? Seems like a wasted pick, can he play LG?  

After watching last night , I am convinced the OL is decent and that najee had a lot to do with the run game failing. He isn't healthy to the point where he is a detriment right now.

A good OC can also help this all out but we will have to wait to verify this. If tomlin keeps canada, then fire tomlin as well especially if he picked canada and is the reason canada isn't fired. 

Trade najee if you can get good value for him. Versatile player and when healthy seemed decent.  Move on, get quicker RB's since this OL is lacking in the run game.  Are Kareem Hunt, Damien Williams, R. Penny  UFA in 2023.  Just a few examples, as every year there are a few quality RB's in UFA , that are proven and for a decent price.  

 

As for OL,  who are the LT's and LG's available . The nice part about OL is you can get player that is 33 and still have 3 good years and the resume is well known so not risk in that regard. I never understood why they let Turner go either, he seemed to be decent .   They could have moved him to LG and Dotson to the sideline. 

I've mostly given up on the OL though, it will be decent at best until they invest . Right now we need to fire canada more than anything.  Sadly the team might get some wins and they might keep canada. If that happens, then fire tomlin and then canada is gone to. 

[CKSteeler]

Pouncey was on Ben's podcast thing and basically said the same thing I did about the OL. The group needs time together and the young guys need more experience and consistency. 

[MOSteelers56]

23 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

Pouncey was on Ben's podcast thing and basically said the same thing I did about the OL. The group needs time together and the young guys need more experience and consistency. 

I think I wouldn't cross O-line off the list completely for need. If there is a can't miss, elite dude sitting there at LT or LG, I'd probably take him. I also wouldn't be upset to take a highly touted C, because Cole probably isn't the long term dude. But I agree with you, 43, and pouncey on the issue. I'm fully on board with looking CB or premium D-line with the early pick. Moore has his warts, but so did AV and we did just fine with him at LT. Dotson has all the talent in the world, he just can't seem to put it together. I will give him credit, though, he's looking a lot better now than he did early. Cole is pretty steady. Daniels and Chuks are good and locked up. I think fans in general need to realize that the days of completely dominant powerhouse O-lines are a thing of the past. Also those stifling 00s defense are the same. No defense in the league can stifle teams like our late 00s, or the Ravens of the early 00s could. The rules just don't allow it.