QB or Not QB-That is is Question

[Karnage84]

2 minutes ago, Just Want A Title said:

Goff's salary isn't so bad and he is still an above average QB.  Is he Patrick Mahomes or Justin Hebert-no.  He isn't Marcus Mariota either.  He might look a lot better when you has Jameson Williams playing.  Assuming the rate of WR injuries slows a bit.

I could see us adding another WR in rounds 2-3, especially if someone slides (like a George Pickens). We've got two 1st's and two 2nd's. 

PFN Rankings

24) Jaxon Smith-Njigba

36) Josh Downs, UNC

42) Rashee Rice, SMU (6'3, 206)

49) Cedric Tillman, Tennessee (6'3, 215)

If we were to add a guy with some size like Rice or Tillman, it'd round out our WR corp for years to come. 

WR - Rice/Tillman (Big Body)

SWR - ARSB (#3 WR in the league)

WR - Williams (speed demon)

 

Chark, Reynolds, Raymond, Cephus, Tom Kennedy can all compete for spots 4, 5, 6. 

[Dr A W Niloc]

26 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

...it would not be shocking for us to bypass that guy and build up the rest of the talent on the roster.

Exactly.      

Tankathon currently has Detroit (read: Rams) picking third.  With Stafford injured, Cooper Kupp out, and with apologies to Ram fans, that is as likely to go up as down.  To put names on this, assuming Bryce Young goes #1, I would hope Brad Holmes takes Will Anderson at #2.  My second choice would be trading down to draft more defense [and likely a tosser in Round #2], with CJ Stroud being my third preference.

[Just Want A Title]

8 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

Who is he going to sign that's a splash? Outside of Da'Ron Payne (I don't even know if I would call that a splash), the FA class isn't all that great. There's a few names on the list that I doubt will be available. We're also a team that has been rebuilding by adding veteran players on 1 year contracts to fill in the gaps. 

I agree, I don't think that Stroud would be a reach but I try to not look at just the individual draft class but compared to other draft classes. The best player (or next best available) of a bad bunch doesn't make them a good player.*

 

* Not calling Stroud a bad player, just more of a general term. Last year's QB class wasn't great - forcing Kenny Pickett in the top 5 wouldn't have made sense based on the player. 

Da'Ron Payne would be the first priority if he doesn't want to re-sign with the Commanders.  G Nate Davis would be our second priority.  Big H isn't worth his contract at this point.  

If Brad Holmes doesn't sign a bigger name he could bring in some solid mid-tier folks like LB Bobby Okereke, DE Samson Ekubam, CB Cameron Sutton, CB Rock Ya Sin.  He could make a run for Tony Pollard or Josh Jacobs also but I would be a little surprised if that happened.

[Karnage84]

6 minutes ago, Dr A W Niloc said:

Exactly.      

Tankathon currently has Detroit (read: Rams) picking third.  With Stafford injured, Cooper Kupp out, and with apologies to Ram fans, that is as likely to go up as down.  To put names on this, assuming Bryce Young goes #1, I would hope Brad Holmes takes Will Anderson at #2.  My second choice would be trading down to draft more defense [and likely a tosser in Round #2], with CJ Stroud being my third preference.

I'm torn on Jalen Carter and Will Anderson. We really need an interior pass-rusher and Carter is just an absolute dude. If we could get Carter paired up with McNeil inside, Hutch should get more room to make plays. Anderson is a bit undersized for what I'd ideally prefer but maybe that's why he'd go #3 instead of #1 overall (even over a QB). 

[Just Want A Title]

53 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

I'm torn on Jalen Carter and Will Anderson. We really need an interior pass-rusher and Carter is just an absolute dude. If we could get Carter paired up with McNeil inside, Hutch should get more room to make plays. Anderson is a bit undersized for what I'd ideally prefer but maybe that's why he'd go #3 instead of #1 overall (even over a QB). 

If we take Will Anderson, I think we would have to shift to a 3-4 defense.  He is listed at 6'4" and 243 Lbs.  He isn't playing DE in a 4-3 or a 4-2 with those measurables.  With that said, we have the draft capital and potential cap space to add the players we need to make that transition.

[Lions017]

On 11/29/2022 at 10:52 PM, Superduperman said:

Clarification: if you need a starting QB for this year out of this years draft, then yeah take one early, but at the same time you can't just stab at a not-sure thing with a top 3 pick. Did you want the Lions to draft Pickett or Malik Willis at #2 last year?

Two other guys who haven't been mentioned: KJ Jefferson and Devin Leary. Jefferson is probably a 3-4 rounder pending the off-season and Leary is 6-7 or UDFA, though I expect him to rise because I think he's got great passing tools.

edit: I'm not interested in Stroud. I'd pass on him in the 3rd round.

edit edit: to me it's pretty clear that the Lions need to roll with Goff for '23, and get a young QB on the roster who is good enough to win some games if called on, and has reasonable upside to develop.

Not really what I was saying. If you want a future starter, you have to take a guy that you have an early grade on. Taking a guy in round four or something means that you have a backup type of grade on him, otherwise you would've grabbed him earlier. Those mid-round guys are lucky to become backups at best. 

[Sllim Pickens]

14 hours ago, Just Want A Title said:

If we take Will Anderson, I think we would have to shift to a 3-4 defense.  He is listed at 6'4" and 243 Lbs.  He isn't playing DE in a 4-3 or a 4-2 with those measurables.  With that said, we have the draft capital and potential cap space to add the players we need to make that transition.

I agree with this and honestly would help Hutch too.  He was elite in college as a stand up rush OLB and we have seen he has the ability to drop back if needed, as does Anderson.  Those two on the edge would be deadly but we would have to bulk up inside for with someone like Ika in the late first or early 2nd.  A front 5 of McNeil, Ika, Paschal with Anderson and Hutch on the edge would be a pretty solid front.  We likely would only use 1 ILB most of the time given the excessive need for nickel and dime packages which helps only needing Rodrigo out there most of the time.  

[Karnage84]

13 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I agree with this and honestly would help Hutch too.  He was elite in college as a stand up rush OLB and we have seen he has the ability to drop back if needed, as does Anderson.  Those two on the edge would be deadly but we would have to bulk up inside for with someone like Ika in the late first or early 2nd.  A front 5 of McNeil, Ika, Paschal with Anderson and Hutch on the edge would be a pretty solid front.  We likely would only use 1 ILB most of the time given the excessive need for nickel and dime packages which helps only needing Rodrigo out there most of the time.  

I feel like we could run a 3-4 whether we drafted Carter or Anderson. In both situations, we'd still need to add a NT that can clog up the middle and allow Allim and Carter (in this case) to put inside pressure (freeing up Hutch). 

I still wouldn't be opposed to adding another edge rusher, possibly with our own 1st, to create an elite level defensive line that is young and has depth. 

 

[Louis Friend]

I really don't want to keep switching our base defense every season. That's how we got into this mess of having a bunch of guys that don't fit together. 

[Karnage84]

8 minutes ago, Louis Friend said:

I really don't want to keep switching our base defense every season. That's how we got into this mess of having a bunch of guys that don't fit together. 

Assuming that we keep AG (which seems realistic given what has happened since Pleasant was fired), it wouldn't be a wholesale scheme shift. 

They've already got Hutch in a stand up position winning DROTM, McNeil has 482 snaps in the B gap, Paschal has 143 snaps at LEO/REO. Adding Carter and playing him on the end or adding Will Anderson and playing him at OLB isn't going to hurt this defense. 

[Louis Friend]

14 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

Assuming that we keep AG (which seems realistic given what has happened since Pleasant was fired), it wouldn't be a wholesale scheme shift. 

They've already got Hutch in a stand up position winning DROTM, McNeil has 482 snaps in the B gap, Paschal has 143 snaps at LEO/REO. Adding Carter and playing him on the end or adding Will Anderson and playing him at OLB isn't going to hurt this defense. 

I'm fine with either defender. I also believe they both can play multiple defenses. My issue would be wholesale changes to our base and rebuilding the defense once again. They need to pick an identity and build it. 

 

[LionArkie]

15 minutes ago, Louis Friend said:

I'm fine with either defender. I also believe they both can play multiple defenses. My issue would be wholesale changes to our base and rebuilding the defense once again. They need to pick an identity and build it. 

 

Yeah, I don't see how having a scheme ADD would be beneficial. Work your base and get better at it each and every year. That doesn't mean you can't ever change or tweak, but I'm sure some consistency would be nice from the players perspective.

[Karnage84]

4 minutes ago, Louis Friend said:

I'm fine with either defender. I also believe they both can play multiple defenses. My issue would be wholesale changes to our base and rebuilding the defense once again. They need to pick an identity and build it. 

 

I don't disagree - it does seem like we are getting some of that stuff figured out. When you unlock a guy like Jeff Okudah, you want to play to his strengths. When you have a guy like Hutch telling you he wants to play a certain way and it's leading to results, you keep doing that. As much as I liked AO last year and had high hopes for him this year, you don't build your defense around a 5th rounder if it's hurting other guys. Now that we have some cornerstones to build around, I don't suspect we'd see wholesale changes to their roles. 

[CWood21]

19 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

If the Lions wind up two picks in the top 20, I could see us making a trade down from #2 - 4 (depending on what the Rams do) for a team wanting to move up into the top 5 to snag a QB. For the kind of compensation that we have seen in years past, it would not be shocking for us to bypass that guy and build up the rest of the talent on the roster. 

I would be absolutely shocked if Detroit passed on a QB if they had the opportunity to drat either Bryce Young or CJ Stroud.  Given the mess the Lions' franchise was when Holmes took over, taking Justin Fields probably wouldn't be any different than what he is with the Bears right now.  Plus, I'm not sure you're going to get an opportunity to draft a QB.  Right now, the Lions' natural selection is 13.  The Lions might not be a consistent top 10 pick team moving forward with them building their core.

[Karnage84]

5 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I would be absolutely shocked if Detroit passed on a QB if they had the opportunity to drat either Bryce Young or CJ Stroud.  Given the mess the Lions' franchise was when Holmes took over, taking Justin Fields probably wouldn't be any different than what he is with the Bears right now.  Plus, I'm not sure you're going to get an opportunity to draft a QB.  Right now, the Lions' natural selection is 13.  The Lions might not be a consistent top 10 pick team moving forward with them building their core.

How did taking Baker Mayfield work out for the Browns? How did Jared Goff work out for the Rams? Zach Wilson for the Jets? Trey Lance for the Niners? Daniel Jones for the Giants? Dwayne Haskins for Washington? Mitch Trubisky for the Bears?

Lamar Jackson was drafted at 32, we've seen other guys get taken in the middle of round 1 that have been exceptional (at least on the field - looking at you Deshaun). 

Taking a guy that you're not completely sold on and bypassing elite level talent at a position we significantly need isn't going to get the job done.