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2023 NFL Draft


Crimmage

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  • New Age LB
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Meet your LB drafted this year.. I haven't seen him play but from what I've read he's a new age LB. 6'4 222. Mack Wilson is probably the smallest LB BB has brought in and even he has 10 pounds on him. 

 

It's really hard to find highlights for him.. especially from Utah. 4 Star recruit out of high school and is expected to run a 4.5. Really intrigued to see how he does at the Shrine Bowl. 

 

Currently projected to go in the 5th/6th round

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182 is better than I thought.. 5'9 isn't ideal though. He's going to need a Tyreek Hill level combine or teams could take him off their board in the first round. That 32-40 range feels right, but if any team is going to fall in love with him .. it's the Patriots. Groh is obsessed with speed, O'Brien wants a slot for his system.. and the entire staff has a chance to coach him for a week and see if they like what they see. 

 

No way am I drafting him at 14.. but he is an intriguing trade back option if you think you can get him in the 20's. Like always I really love the 70-125 range of players in this draft, I wonder if you could work out a trade like 14 for 20, 83, and 122. Still unlikely they would use 20 on Flowers, but at least you're getting two quality picks to go along with him ( Those two picks could easily be a starting CB/OT in this draft).

 

Even smaller than Marcus Jones.. who went in the 80s. Could this push him outside of the top 100? If he is there in the 4th I don't think they will be able to pass over him 3 times.. he's got huge talent. Throw him at FS if you need to, he is way too talented to not just draft and figure out how you play him later. 

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13 hours ago, Crimmage said:
  • New Age LB
  • Football Historial
  • Football Guy
  • Respects good coaching


Meet your LB drafted this year.. I haven't seen him play but from what I've read he's a new age LB. 6'4 222. Mack Wilson is probably the smallest LB BB has brought in and even he has 10 pounds on him. 

 

It's really hard to find highlights for him.. especially from Utah. 4 Star recruit out of high school and is expected to run a 4.5. Really intrigued to see how he does at the Shrine Bowl. 

 

Currently projected to go in the 5th/6th round

Here's what I'm talking about finding players.  I go right back to the USC game and see if he a player to watch. Thanks for the heads up.

Only watched 1/2 tape. I don't see anything but ST player. What stood out is the lack of instincts. Out of position not doing his job. In this case its not coaching it awareness.  IMO.

Side note.    I said some times other players stand out from the one I'm looking at, well it happened again, not in a good way.

Clark Phillips III popped out while viewing different vid on the same game.  He was out of control, lack discipline. Need to do his job.

Don't get me wrong his natural gifts pop out however the Pats would have to check if these faults can be corrected and will he listen.  Best way to say this, can he take coaching and apply it to the field.

USC OL/Offense vs Utah Defense (2022) - YouTube

 

Edited by m haynes
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1.4 10 yard split is pretty insane if he tests that well. The 40 is important for draft stock.. but when it comes to the Patriots, what they really care about is seeing an elite 3cone/10 yard split out of the slot. 

 

Edelmans 10 yard split was 1.52 for comparison. Tyquan Thornton ran a 1.41 10 yard split and ended up with a 4.28 40. 

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Here he is again, my basement guy with another WR out of left field!!!!!

Top 10 Wide Receivers in the 2023 NFL Draft I A Talented & Deep Group - YouTube

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Who the heck is this guy!!!! I haven't heard anything on him.

Parker Washington Penn ST  WR.  I need to read up on this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ypi1Ncl_Fo

Another guy mentioned

Rakim Jarrett WR Maryland.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq02Au7H7bI

Need to look more into Jarett,  but my 1st impression, confusion.  He looks like the most nonathletic WR for a athletic guy !!!!! Weird. Also it look like he know the WR game. He make these great moves than stumbles 20 yards later !!!!

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Crimmage said:

1.4 10 yard split is pretty insane if he tests that well. The 40 is important for draft stock.. but when it comes to the Patriots, what they really care about is seeing an elite 3cone/10 yard split out of the slot. 

 

Edelmans 10 yard split was 1.52 for comparison. Tyquan Thornton ran a 1.41 10 yard split and ended up with a 4.28 40. 

Two thing that stood out.

The guy interviewing, funny. Boston accent and I'm from Boston area!!!!!

I never ran a forty!!!!! Ya right.

 

 

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15 hours ago, Crimmage said:

Marcus Jones.. who went in the 80s

Here where I disagree in general. Jones should of been a high 2nd rd pick. The reason at 80, old school thinking, another word, fools.

I agree that Flower should not be picked at 14 but is has nothing to do with his size.

IMO there could be better players sitting there. Whitherspoon  and Gonzales.  If the they can't make a trade and they have to take a player. Let say you have a choice of only two, the others don't compare in talent Jones and Flowers. I don't hesitate, Flowers is the choice.  I not big on raw talent or future player. To me that's throwing it against the wall. Day one Flowers is your, number one WR.  Problem,BB won't notice til the 10 game mark!!!!!!! Or that dumb as-s comment, lets not put him in Canton just yet. Today's players/society don't respond to that old crap!!!!!

That's  why BB is freaking out with today's players!!!!

Also you mentioned

Hill  5'10 191

Waddle  5,10 183

Smith  6' 170

 

 

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edit** I wrote this before reading. Then I scroll up and see the Witherspoon convo… Lol. Apologies

 

Devon Witherspoon is the ultimate choice, for me, for New England in round one.

Offensive line is the biggest issue I believe; but the secondary isn’t too far behind that unit.

If we can retain a group of key guys such as Kyle Dugger and Jabril Peppers, the hurt won’t be as hard if Devin McCourty decides to walk away this off-season.

Marcus Jones has 3 more years to make us jump out of our seats, Jack Jones performed well and can build on a solid rookie campaign with undoubtedly more playing time coming his way.

Is Jalen Mills a cap casualty? Does he become our third safety? Where’s that leave Adrian Phillips? Too many questions, not enough answers.

 

Unfortunately, we need answers.

Well, Bill & Co. would need answers to secure Witherspoon. Is he worth dumping a 3rd or 4th rounder in a move to trade up a handful~ of spots?

We should be sitting pretty with extra compensatory picks.

 

Opinions on Witherspoon? Would you trade up for him?

Edited by DaPatsKid98
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12 hours ago, DaPatsKid98 said:

Opinions on Witherspoon? Would you trade up for him?

Great pick. He's elite CB however I don't trade up to get him. I take him or Gonzo at 14 unless someone happens to fall , Tyree Wilson. That's crazy, if he falls, the guy is a monster. IMO he's unreal, you have to watch him more than once to see his impact!!!! Think Big C, and what he did for the overall defense.

Reason the CB class is loaded. He's great however there are several high quality guys that will go in the 2nd even third in some mocks.

Also if you stay put  you will have 2 options. Spoon and Gonzales. IMO they are equal , it's just what type your looking for with your defense.  Here's Gonzales

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7LQas_m1N4

The only team I see taking a CB would be Eagles. Maybe Atlanta but they will need a splash, CB boring !!!!

Finally  The Pats are in a great position to trade down. Based on the talk teams will consider Anthony Richardson QB  Florida in the 1st RD. They pay a boat load!!!!!!

Well if that the case teams will call the Pats for a trade to move ahead of Commanders who pick 16.

Edited by m haynes
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13 hours ago, DaPatsKid98 said:

Offensive line is the biggest issue I believe; but the secondary isn’t too far behind that unit.

I've lessened my concern for OL after the season, crazy I know.. but hear me out. MattyP was the coach, so they got 0 guidance in training camp.. then we hear that they changed the entire protection scheme but didn't account for dozens of possibilities. These guys were setup to fail. The fact that they held up as well as they did is amazing at this point. Billy Yates turned into the OL Coach and the poor guy had no experience.. he was just trying to put the pieces together. With a legit OL coach I think a lot of their problems are fixed. 

- Trent Brown will remain at LT for the year.. I could even see them extending him another year to help the cap. I'm starting to feel like I wouldn't want to spend 14 on any of these guys, maybe a trade back but they are going to get overdrafted im thinking. 

- Cole Strange played well last year at times and had no idea what he was doing, with an offseason building muscle and a real OL coach.. he could be great next year

- Andrews is Andrews.. but I think this could be his last year. Kody Russey either needs to be the guy or they need to draft a replacement on day 3. Thankfully this is a good draft to do that. Ricky Stromberg is a day 3 guy they are with at the Shrine Bowl now. 

- Mike Onwenu just needs to be extended and I'll be happy. If you give him a 4 year45M extension now he may take it because he's never gotten any money in the league. If he isn't signed this offseason he's going to be too expensive and they will lose him. 

- RT is the key.. I would sign a free agent, but if they cant.. no need to spend a first round pick. You have a bunch of later options, not to mention they could sign a cheap 1 year vet and let him compete with Stueber (who was good) and a rookie) 

13 hours ago, DaPatsKid98 said:

If we can retain a group of key guys such as Kyle Dugger and Jabril Peppers, the hurt won’t be as hard if Devin McCourty decides to walk away this off-season.

Peppers is likely back because he won't cost much.. Dugger on the other hand I see very much like Onwenu. They will offer him a deal this offseason, if he doesn't take it he will be gone because in free agency he will price himself off the team. 

13 hours ago, DaPatsKid98 said:

Marcus Jones has 3 more years to make us jump out of our seats, Jack Jones performed well and can build on a solid rookie campaign with undoubtedly more playing time coming his way.

Is Jalen Mills a cap casualty? Does he become our third safety? Where’s that leave Adrian Phillips? Too many questions, not enough answers.

Jalen Mills situation is tough to determine. He could be the only veteran CB in a very young group. We also know that the best player available at 14 is more than likely going to be a corner, so if you draft one he's getting pushed out. 

 

I think the most likely scenario is that Jalen Mills gets pushed to FS for a year. The safety room is going to have a lot of turnover next year (Dugger/Phillips potentially) so if he could solidify himself as a FS moving forward, that would go a long way. The same could be said for Jon Jones if they bring him back and put him there. 

13 hours ago, DaPatsKid98 said:

Opinions on Witherspoon? Would you trade up for him?

I love Witherspoon, but no way am I trading up for him. I'm not trading up for anyone. His film has been getting him a lot of hype lately, a couple months ago he was a late 2nd rounder.. now people are talking about him as top 10. I think he's great, but he's not Sauce or Stingley last season. I love his toughness, he's not afraid to make a tackle, he's also really smart.. he's able to recognize plays well and make up for lacking elite athleticism. Brett Beilema connection makes him a Pats target too.  

 

Here are some potential knocks teams could have, making him not a top 10 pick: 

  • He's 6ft 180lb, while Gonzalez and Ringo are 6ft2 200lb
  • I don't think he will test as well as those guys.. I think we will find out that those other two are more athletes that can be molded at the next level, while Witherspoon is closer to a finished product. I think the combine hurts him a bit.
  • Witherspoon is 22, Gonzalez and Ringo are 20. That's a factor if a team has a player rated the same in the top 10. If all three are hits, Witherspoon turns 30 first and that's when CB's fall off. You can get 2 full contracts out of Gonzalez below 30, Witherspoon might be a shell of himself at the end of the 2nd. 

 

Ringo is Elam from last year, same flaws and strengths imo. Being on that Georgia team could easily push him past Witherspoon on some teams boards. 

 

Christian Gonzalez though may be my #1 CB the more I watch him. Given how amazing Pellegrino is as a coach, I think he could turn Gonzalez into a shut down CB day 1. He feels like with the right coaching he could be special. 

 

Witherspoon I think will be a #1 CB in this league, especially on the Patriots, but I'm not sure he will be shut down level #1. Like Gilmore/Revis leave him alone and let him do his thing #1. I'm reluctant to use 14 on him for that reason, that's a premium pick and given the amount of depth in this class, If i'm not getting elite I would rather get more picks to have a shot at other players hitting. Like I said though, I think it's totally possible he "falls" after other guys blow up the combine, at that point I totally do it. Trade back from 14 to 20, get an extra 3rd and take Witherspoon.. i'm all for it. 

 

20 is a tough place though.. let's say all of these guys are on the board... who are you taking? Devon Witherspoon, Zay Flowers, JSN, and Broderick Jones? .. I think you have to go highest potential and I'm not too sure it's Witherspoon there either. 

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1 hour ago, m haynes said:

Finally  The Pats are in a great position to trade down. Based on the talk teams will consider Anthony Richardson QB  Florida in the 1st RD. They pay a boat load!!!!!!

Well if that the case teams will call the Pats for a trade to move ahead of Commanders who pick 16.

This is a very good point, similar to 2 years ago everyone is already assuming 4 QB's in the top 10.. but as we know, that never happens. One of them could be there at 14 and even if the Patriots love a guy the offer may be too good to pass up. 

 

Detriot: If they don't take a guy top 10, I could see them overpaying a lot and giving a 2nd to move from 18 to 14. 

Tampa Bay: They don't have anyone, Brady is gone.. jump from 19 to 14. Instead of taking 19 though, I think BB asks for 50 and a future 1st because they could suck next year given their cap 

 

The MOST interesting team, which if I'm Bill, I call them at 14 even if they aren't calling me.. is the Giants. Even if they resign Jones, they know he's not the guy.. they need someone.. and at 25, what QB could you possibly expect to get. 

A Trade Proposal: 

14 to take Anthony Richardson ( Who Daboll will believe he can turn into Josh Allen) 

for: 

  • 1st, 2023 (25)
  • 3rd, 2023 (89)
  • 1st, 2024
  • 4th, 2024

 

If someone throws that my way.. I'm taking it. Unfortunately all of the guys I would be in love with in the first would be gone.. but that's just too much to pass up. If all the WR/OT are gone then I would try to trade back another 5-10 picks.. say to the eagles for a 3rd and draft Drew Sanders. 

 

So I would then have Drew Sanders AND: 

  • 3rd, 2023 (89)
  • 3rd, 2023 (95)
  • 1st, 2024
  • 4th, 2024

 

Those 2024 picks then allow me to trade up for Marvin Harrison Jr or a QB depending on how well Mac does :D

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55 minutes ago, Crimmage said:

20 is a tough place though.. let's say all of these guys are on the board... who are you taking? Devon Witherspoon, Zay Flowers, JSN, and Broderick Jones? .

My answer is based on mocks so don't annualize where the players are mocked. I don't agree where they listed but I have to use mocks to make my point.

Number one, I can't see Spoon falling to 20, but based on your comment this is what I would do at 20. I would pass on Spoon and Jones. I have to assume we have two, 2nd RD picks.

Reason I pass is based on the strength of the CBs and the level of talent at OL. EX The 2nd rd OL talent is basically the same as the 1st. Better value.

Reason

  Jones     raw, he needs a year. Plus I question his balance. I would look at.

Jaelyn Duncan OT Maryland  ( I look at size and skill, potential much higher than Jones, both sit, so I go with JD.

Darnell Wright OT Tennessee  Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cody Mauch OT North Dakota State   Same as JD.

Blake Freeland OT BYU   late RD 2nd

Spoon   I hate passing but I'm trying to maximize my draft picks. Draft loaded with CBs 

Garrett Williams CB Syracuse

Tre'Vius Hodges-Tomlinson  CB TCU

Kyu Blu Kelly  CB Stanford

Emmanuel Forbes CB Mississippi State

Jaylon Jones  CB Texas A&M

DJ Turner CB Michigan

 I would take Flowers at 20. I Iove speed and he can play inside and out. Also his outstanding college career, without a QB!!!!!

Now if I picked it would be

Flowers

Darnell Wright

Garrett Williams

If I went with Spoon at 20 the only WR in 2nd Hyatt, who I love, but Flowers does more and he's number one first day.

 

 

 

 

 

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Patriots projected to receive 3 extra draft picks this year - Pats Pulpit

  • Round 1: 14th overall
  • Round 2: 46th overall
  • Round 3: 76th overall (via Carolina)
  • Round 4: 107th overall (via Los Angeles)*
  • Round 4: 117th overall*
  • Round 4: 135th overall (compensatory)*
  • Round 6: 184th overall (via Las Vegas)*
  • Round 6: 187th overall (via Carolina)*
  • Round 6: 192nd overall*
  • Round 6: 210th overall (compensatory)*
  • Round 7: 259th overall (compensatory)*
Edited by m haynes
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Some names to remember after 2 days of the Shrine Bowl: 

 

Can guarantee they draft at least 3-4 of these names. 3 4th round picks and 4 6th round picks .. those could all be Shrine Bowl players when it's all said and done. 

 

Offense

  • WR, Zay Flowers (1st)
    • He was advised to not practice.. he sat out day 1.. practiced day 2. I really wonder if the Patriots spoke to him and convinced him to practice. That could go a long way towards them wanting him as their 1st round pick. 
  • WR, AT Perry (3rd)
    • Dominated day 1
  • WR, Justin Shorter (6th)
    • Another Florida guy who is raw. 6'4 223. Made the play of the game to make the defense do push ups
  • RB, Mohamed Ibrahim (6th)
    • Huge production in college which they like.. they had him catching passes though which is notable because he wasn't doing that in college. 
  • C, Ricky Stromberg (6th) 
    • From all reports he is strong and athletic. A guy who could be a day one starter. Seems like someone they would fall in love with, draft to sit behind Andrews for a year then let him take over 
  • OL, Jaxson Kirkland (4th)
    • Day 1 he only played LG but played well. Interested if he played ant LT day 2. 
  • RT, Dalton Wagner (6th- UDFA) 
    • Raw but huge and powerful. He screams Patriots pick.. someone who is a ball of clay and needs an OL coach attached to his hip and he could be a starter at RT for a decade. If they can't get a starter at RT in free agency .. I think they could do worse than McDermott / Stueber / Wagner fighting it out for the RT spot. 
  • LT, Connor Galvin (5th)
    • Quiet day 1 but it's said that he did well day 2. Another guy who is raw but has potential. 

Defense

  • CB, Myles Brooks (6th)
    • Has a CB1 attitude from interviews, small school guy, feels like someone they will fall in love with 
  • CB, Mekhi Garner (4th)
  • CB, Nic Jones (6th)
  • FS, Gervarrius Ownes (6th)
    • FS from Houston, had an INT today and they love that program
  • S, Trey Dean (5th)
    • Reported that he's a great athlete but very raw. I'm learning that the defensive coaches at Florida are awful.. all of these high recruits that don't know what they are doing. I could see them taking a chance on him, getting him in the building and coaching him up
  • FS, AJ Finley (6th)
    • Had 2 INT day 2 of practice
  • Edge, Brenton Cox Jr (Day 3)
    • 1st round talent, Raw and has off field question marks. BB made a point to coach him personally multiple times.. given the number of day 3 picks they have.. I would expect them to target him on day 3.
  • Edge, Truman Jones (6th)
    • Seen as a smart guy with potential who hasn't had good coaching
  • LB (S in college) Jaiden Woodbey (7th/UDFA)
    • Was a safety in college, turning into a coverage LB for the Pro's. He could go undrafted but he's done well in coverage so far. 

 

Punter: 

  • Michael Turk (5th/6th)
    • Has apparently been very impressive.. Achord spending a lot of time with him.. if they find a way to get out of Bailey's contract I could see them drafting this guy
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