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mdonnelly21

Who's been more valuable this season? Drew Brees or Russell Wilson

Who's Higher On MVP?   

34 members have voted

  1. 1. Who's Been More Valuable This Season?

    • Russell Wilson
      28
    • Drew Brees
      6


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Brees has been a game manager outside of those final two redskins drives... For the first time in the past decade, we have a situation where most QBs could find success here.

Wilson on the other hand is in a position where almost no other QB could find success.

Pretty easily Wilson

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23 minutes ago, domepatrol91 said:

Brees has been a game manager outside of those final two redskins drives... For the first time in the past decade, we have a situation where most QBs could find success here.

Wilson on the other hand is in a position where almost no other QB could find success.

Pretty easily Wilson

I can't remember the last time I saw a game manager on pace for 4400 plus yards with a 8+YPA clip. B|

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Wilson, based on how the two teams have been winning games. The big storyline out of New Orleans all year has been how Brees is taking a back seat to the running backs. Russel Wilson is close to the entirety of that Seattle team.

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22 minutes ago, PapaShogun said:

I can't remember the last time I saw a game manager on pace for 4400 plus yards with a 8+YPA clip. B|

Yeah I think the term "game manager" gets used way too much with Brees this year. As he showed this past week, he still can be an elite caliber QB when his number is called to put the team on his back. I think so many Saints fans have gotten used to him having to carry the offense to consistently win since he got here, so this year with him not having to do quite as much for the offense to achieve success, he gets inaccurately labeled as a game manager. In reality, the Saints just have essentially a pick your poison type offense. I'm sure in the coming weeks more teams will key in on stopping the Saints run game that has been destroying teams, and we will see Drew's numbers start to go up a bit.

At this stage in the season Brees is 4th overall in passing yards (less than 20 yards away from 2nd overall), 3rd in QB Rating, 1st in completion percentage ( 71.6 which would be an NFL record). I can't call that a game manager. 

Edited by tyler735

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12 minutes ago, PapaShogun said:

I can't remember the last time I saw a game manager on pace for 4400 plus yards with a 8+YPA clip. B|

He's a bit more than a game manager, but not even close to carrying the team.

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14 minutes ago, PapaShogun said:

I can't remember the last time I saw a game manager on pace for 4400 plus yards with a 8+YPA clip. B|

*game manager in a Sean Payton offense.

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40 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

He's a bit more than a game manager, but not even close to carrying the team.

This is fair. Obviously he has the ability to do more, as we saw this week.

But on the 2pt conversion and even in OT we just handed the ball off to our RBs. Brees didn't have to do anything to win the game after the ball left his hand for the Kamara TD. Kamara made the amazing play for the TD, Kamara took the handoff for the 2pt. Our O-line (arguably the best in football when healthy) allowed Ingram to run twice in OT for 51 yards and set up the game winning FG. 

That's two defensive stops and an OT drive and score that didn't ask Brees to throw even a single checkdown. Before that Brees went 11/11 for 164 yards, and 2/0 so he clearly has the ability to take over a game when need be. But when when he doesn't need to take over a game, Sean has shown he's finally fine letting Brees sit back and hand the ball off 24 times in a row, or make short passes to Ingram and Kamara 15 times in a game.

He's been relegated to a game manager, which he's obviously capable of doing at an Elite level. When he needs to come out and take over a game like he's done in the past he's shown he can still do that, but we're finally in a position where he doesn't need to do that every single game. 

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I suppose everyone has a slightly different definition of Game Manager, but this most closely resembles what I think when I see Game Manager:

"In American football, a game manager is a quarterback who, despite relatively poor individual statistics such as passing yards and touchdowns, performs well enough to win games.[1][2] Game managers often benefit from strong defense and rushing offense on their teams. The player is expected to not lose games with interceptions, fumbles, or poor decisions, particularly during important situations near the end of a game."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_manager

 

 

That isn't Brees. He has very good individual statistics, and is top 5 in several key passing categories this season. Having a balanced offense isn't the same thing as being a game manager.

As I mentioned before I don't think us Saints fans are used to this style of football after so many years of being completely dependent on Brees arm to win games.

https://www.thesportster.com/football/top-15-game-manager-qbs-in-nfl-history/

Here's a top 15 list of NFL Game Manager's, Brees doesn't fit this mold. He is literally 1 or 2 big passing games away from being top 3/top 5 in just about every major passing category:

At this stage in the season Brees is 4th overall in passing yards (less than 20 yards away from 2nd overall), 3rd in QB Rating, 1st in completion percentage ( 71.6 which would be an NFL record). His touchdown numbers are down a bit, but that can change in the matter of a game or 2 to get him back around the top 5.

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I think calling Brees a game manager now would be like calling Elway at game manager once Terrell Davis arrived. And people don't do that, because he wasn't. Despite the Broncos at that time being a run first team. 

Edited by PapaShogun

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13 hours ago, patriotsheatyan said:

Bree's. Better numbers, better record, more meaningful play. Wilson has been awful almost every first half I have watched but ran up the score in the end (Indy and NYG) or had some late game heroics (SF) or they just got beat up (GB) or they didn't put up many points (ARI). With all of the hype he got last night, he ended up with 250 yards passing, 2 TDs, and 2 TOs.

 

"Wilson is carrying the Seahawks!"

The Seahawks aren't going anywhere and haven't been impressive.

 

"Wilson's defense has been bad!"

The Seahawks defense has been mostly good up until the last week. It has carried them to numerous wins. The Seahawks have only won a single shoot out this season, which seems to be setting the narrative.

 

"Wilson's line sucks"

Six years into his career and we hear the same thing every year. It's almost as if having a 5'10" QB who's first instinct is to run backwards and then in circles complicates pass protection.

You would run backwards in your line hasnt protected you for 6 years dont you?

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1 hour ago, tyler735 said:

Having a balanced offense isn't the same thing as being a game manager.

 

Yea, he isn't a game manager.  He has been one in certain games, but not throughout the whole season.  People think he is a game manager, because his usual bulk stats were so far above and beyond what they are now.  The last time the Saints had a rushing offense close to this potent was in 2011, when they rushed for 2127 yards(132 yards/game) and Brees threw 46 TDs and 5476 yards.  This year they are on pace for rushing 2304 yards(144 yards/game).

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These are all fair points about him not being a game manager.

I also think "game manager" is looked at as a bad thing most of the time, where I feel having an elite QB simply manage a game is exactly what you want. 

So he is much more than a game manager, but this year more than years in the past he's found himself having to do nothing more than manage games. 

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4 hours ago, tyler735 said:

I suppose everyone has a slightly different definition of Game Manager, but this most closely resembles what I think when I see Game Manager:

"In American football, a game manager is a quarterback who, despite relatively poor individual statistics such as passing yards and touchdowns, performs well enough to win games.[1][2] Game managers often benefit from strong defense and rushing offense on their teams. The player is expected to not lose games with interceptions, fumbles, or poor decisions, particularly during important situations near the end of a game."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_manager

 

 

That isn't Brees. He has very good individual statistics, and is top 5 in several key passing categories this season. Having a balanced offense isn't the same thing as being a game manager.

As I mentioned before I don't think us Saints fans are used to this style of football after so many years of being completely dependent on Brees arm to win games.

https://www.thesportster.com/football/top-15-game-manager-qbs-in-nfl-history/

Here's a top 15 list of NFL Game Manager's, Brees doesn't fit this mold. He is literally 1 or 2 big passing games away from being top 3/top 5 in just about every major passing category:

At this stage in the season Brees is 4th overall in passing yards (less than 20 yards away from 2nd overall), 3rd in QB Rating, 1st in completion percentage ( 71.6 which would be an NFL record). His touchdown numbers are down a bit, but that can change in the matter of a game or 2 to get him back around the top 5.

I don’t think that anyone means that he is a game manager relative to other QBs...he’s a game manager made by his own impossible statistical standard. People say game manager because his numbers ARE down compared to his average...but it has everything to do with him bring better supported by the defense and running game. 

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3 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said:

I don’t think that anyone means that he is a game manager relative to other QBs...he’s a game manager made by his own impossible statistical standard. People say game manager because his numbers ARE down compared to his average...but it has everything to do with him bring better supported by the defense and running game. 

Was going to say this same thing. As Saints fans, we're used to 5k seasons from Drew Brees. If he throws for only 4k, that's an omg game manager for us, relative only to his own standards lol.

Going with DangerRuss on this one. (I didn't make that up. They play a song at CenturyLink about Russell Wilson calling him Danger"Russ" xD) That Oline is godawful, and the run game is non-existent (unless he's the one running). Seahawks whole offense is Wilson.  

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55 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said:

I don’t think that anyone means that he is a game manager relative to other QBs...he’s a game manager made by his own impossible statistical standard. People say game manager because his numbers ARE down compared to his average...but it has everything to do with him bring better supported by the defense and running game. 

I would agree that some of his bulk numbers are down, but I don't agree that everyone thinks he is a game manager only by his own statistical standard. I have seen several posts throughout the year stating that Brees as a player has noticeably regressed, and that he doesn't have the arm to make all the throws. I think this past week was a great sign to disprove that theory though. 

Edited by tyler735

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