2023 FA Targets

[Madmike90]

4 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

They still have to play games in the now.  Hence moving guys around.

DL is probably are greatest team need going into 2023.  It needs a lot.   It is historically bad at moment.   

I think you need at least 2 real good players on D line in order to be considered a good team.   

 

I don't think there is any doubt DL is our biggest need...to me we need 2 good starting DL in free agency then probably 2 more at the draft as well as depth...full thing needs rebuilt...

I have said it before but I will say it again...Chris Morgan has done an outstanding job with all the changes on the OL to keep them at least somewhat solid in pass pro and actually good when run blocking.

[dll2000]

9 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

I don't think there is any doubt DL is our biggest need...to me we need 2 good starting DL in free agency then probably 2 more at the draft as well as depth...full thing needs rebuilt...

I have said it before but I will say it again...Chris Morgan has done an outstanding job with all the changes on the OL to keep them at least somewhat solid in pass pro and actually good when run blocking.

I don't know.  I have a lot of criticisms of this guy.

He almost got rid of Jenkins.  Then benched him.  Then played him part time and was almost forced into playing him full time when it was obvious to anyone with eyes he was best player from get go.   It wasn't even close, but they were acting like they were only playing guy begrudgingly due to draft status.    I can't figure why they gave up on him at OT from beginning.  We will never know how that would worked out now.   

He ignored Dieter the whole season and now only due to injuries only are we discovering he should have had a shot at C or maybe even G.   But we saw this in preseason.  He looked really good in preseason and it meant nothing.  

He let a good raw piece of clay walk out door in Zach Thomas who I believe is a future starting G in this league. 

Borom should have been moved to G in spring in first mini camp.

Point I will give him is OL fundamentals have improved since he came here.  I am not sure why they were so bad under Nagy's coaches as they are men of reputation.    But they unquestionably were bad.  Really bad.  

[Madmike90]

Just now, dll2000 said:

I don't know.  I have a lot of criticisms of this guy.

He almost got rid of Jenkins.  Then benched him.  Then played him part time and was almost forced into playing him full time when it was obvious to anyone with eyes he was best player from get go.   It wasn't even close, but they were acting like they were only playing guy begrudgingly due to draft status.    I can't figure why they gave up on him at OT from beginning.  We will never know how that would worked out now.   

He ignored Dieter the whole season and now only due to injuries only are we discovering he should have had a shot at C or maybe even G.   But we saw this in preseason.  He looked really good in preseason and it meant nothing.  

He let a good raw piece of clay walk out door in Zach Thomas who I believe is a future starting G in this league. 

Borom should have been moved to G in spring in first mini camp.

Point I will give him is OL fundamentals have improved since he came here.  I am not sure why they were so bad under Nagy's coaches as they are men of reputation.    But they unquestionably were bad.  Really bad.  

A couple of things here...

Pole/Flus & Morgan all had a hand in the treatment of Jenkins and it worked...it motivated a guy who from college has been known to need a different approach...the fact they saw he was a guard so early was a big plus...

Dieter is nothing more than a guy who shouldn't be on this team next season...

Thomas was on the practice squad instead of Carter for a reason and as much as I like both it wasn't a shock a team as beaten up as the Rams were always going to be in the market to take one...

Borom was needed to RT in mini camp since we didn't have Leatherwood or even Reiff until TC.

Bottom line is we have the #1 rushing offence in the NFL and haven't gotten Fields killed in every game...that is a big improvement from last season and when you consider we lost our starting centre for basically the entire season...Whitehair & Jenkins have been in and out of the lineup...rotating door at RT...only constant has been a 5th round rookie LT who came from a terrible FBS school and now looks like he can be a long term starter...credit where credit is due. 

[dll2000]

1 minute ago, Madmike90 said:

A couple of things here...

Pole/Flus & Morgan all had a hand in the treatment of Jenkins and it worked...it motivated a guy who from college has been known to need a different approach...the fact they saw he was a guard so early was a big plus...

Dieter is nothing more than a guy who shouldn't be on this team next season...

Thomas was on the practice squad instead of Carter for a reason and as much as I like both it wasn't a shock a team as beaten up as the Rams were always going to be in the market to take one...

Borom was needed to RT in mini camp since we didn't have Leatherwood or even Reiff until TC.

Bottom line is we have the #1 rushing offence in the NFL and haven't gotten Fields killed in every game...that is a big improvement from last season and when you consider we lost our starting centre for basically the entire season...Whitehair & Jenkins have been in and out of the lineup...rotating door at RT...only constant has been a 5th round rookie LT who came from a terrible FBS school and now looks like he can be a long term starter...credit where credit is due. 

I disagree.

Dieter is clearly better than Mustipher and probably Patrick in every way but snapping and game knowledge.   That is purpose of coaching to fix that and get better athlete on the field.  

Why do you think great athletes with less to show on field are recruited over great high school players with lessor athletic abilities?  They coach up the greater potential.  

Jenkins psy ops is pure speculation and giving credit where it is not due.   This is in same vain as saying Rodgers got good because of Jordan Love draft pick.  Nobody planned that.  Jenkins was likely in dog house with coaches due to back pain or whatever and probably pissed about it and so where they.  That they then benched him and then moved his position probably didn't make him happy either.  You would probably think that unfair too in his shoes.  

  Most great OTs would make great Gs.   Coaches at every level put their best OL at OT first and G last.   When it doesn't happen that way it is usually because they already have good OTs in place and don't want to move them.

You don't know that Carter was outplaying Thomas in practice.  That is speculation and giving coaches benefit of doubt they don't deserve.   I don't trust these guys that that was the case given evidence elsewhere on team.   Even if he was you have to have more an eye to future.  Where someone is, isn't where they can go.   Why I wouldn't give up on Velus Jones at this point either.  

Fields has been killed a lot.   Pressure has come in a lot.  Especially on drop backs.   Fields athletic ability is difference and that is where majority of credit is due.

Jones and Jenkins have blocked very well in run game and they deserve credit for that.  

I am not trying to overly bash OL coach.  I think he is best we have had in last 6 years or so.  But I also have criticisms.

I am not an across board cheerleader.

 

[Madmike90]

2 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I disagree.

Dieter is clearly better than Mustipher and probably Patrick in every way but snapping and game knowledge.   That is purpose of coaching to fix that and get better athlete on the field.  

Why do you think great athletes with less to show on field are recruited over great high school players with lessor athletic abilities?  They coach up the greater potential.  

Jenkins psy ops is pure speculation and giving credit where it is not due.   This is in same vain as saying Rodgers got good because of Jordan Love draft pick.  Nobody planned that.  Jenkins was likely in dog house with coaches due to back pain or whatever and probably pissed about it and so where they.  That they then benched him and then moved his position probably didn't make him happy either.  You would probably think that unfair too in his shoes.  

  Most great OTs would make great Gs.   Coaches at every level put their best OL at OT first and G last.   When it doesn't happen that way it is usually because they already have good OTs in place and don't want to move them.

You don't know that Carter was outplaying Thomas in practice.  That is speculation and giving coaches benefit of doubt they don't deserve.   I don't trust these guys that that was the case given evidence elsewhere on team.   Even if he was you have to have more an eye to future.  Where someone is, isn't where they can go.   Why I wouldn't give up on Velus Jones at this point either.  

Fields has been killed a lot.   Pressure has come in a lot.  Especially on drop backs.   Fields athletic ability is difference and that is where majority of credit is due.

Jones and Jenkins have blocked very well in run game and they deserve credit for that.  

I am not trying to overly bash OL coach.  I think he is best we have had in last 6 years or so.  But I also have criticisms.

I am not an across board cheerleader.

 

That assessment is based on nothing because we haven't seen him as you yourself have said.

No it's not...Mike Gundy explained it has always been like that with Jenkins...you need to find the buttons to motivate him and he is not a regular guy.

You do know that he wasn't...and given the fact one was on the PS and one was on the active roster it would make sense Carter is showing more than Thomas was.

Not as much as we have seen our QBs getting killed in the past...need I remind you of Cleveland?

This sounds like you personally like Eiselen & Thomas and want to slant an argument their way over the evidence we see when it comes to Poles keeping certain guys and the coaches playing certain guys. 

[dll2000]

9 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

That assessment is based on nothing because we haven't seen him as you yourself have said.

No it's not...Mike Gundy explained it has always been like that with Jenkins...you need to find the buttons to motivate him and he is not a regular guy.

You do know that he wasn't...and given the fact one was on the PS and one was on the active roster it would make sense Carter is showing more than Thomas was.

Not as much as we have seen our QBs getting killed in the past...need I remind you of Cleveland?

This sounds like you personally like Eiselen & Thomas and want to slant an argument their way over the evidence we see when it comes to Poles keeping certain guys and the coaches playing certain guys. 

We saw Dieter last week and in preseason.

[Madmike90]

2 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

We saw Dieter last week and in preseason.

Preseason means nothing...

He has played a grand total of 34 snaps this season on offence...if that is enough for you to say he is good then go ahead but not for me.

[dll2000]

10 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Preseason means nothing...

He has played a grand total of 34 snaps this season on offence...if that is enough for you to say he is good then go ahead but not for me.

I said he is better than Mustipher.

[Madmike90]

2 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I said he is better than Mustipher.

And I saying as a guy who openly hates Mustipher than 34 snaps is no where near enough evidence to say that.

[dll2000]

1 minute ago, dll2000 said:

I said he is better than Mustipher.

I would still be looking for a FA center in offseason.    But it would have been nice to know how Dieter would have done with meaningful reps at C earlier in year.

He deserved it.  

And preseason and practice does mean things.  This is where you win jobs in football.

We don't have full picture not being at practices.  So I have to base my opinion on what I see.  

 

[dll2000]

Just now, Madmike90 said:

And I saying as a guy who openly hates Mustipher than 34 snaps is no where near enough evidence to say that.

I am basing it on two years plus of public evidence now.  In the available public comparisons Dieter has been better player with the higher potential.

I don't agree with all his points or a lot of his points he says on a lot of things, but Phil and his dad do play by play breakdowns of film on TNLN X's with O's and they say same and they have been screaming and pointing out that Dieter is better from roof tops for some time now.   His dad is a HOF HS coach and knows fundamentals and honestly Phil knows fundamentals too.   

I agree with their analysis of what they see in real time when they break down film.

I gave coaches benefit of doubt, like you,  because of what we don't see.  Practices.  But more I get to see, the more I disagree with Bears coaches on this decision.  

Why the coaches like Mustipher better I can't tell you.   I am not at Halas in meetings.  But coaches aren't always right.   

 

[Madmike90]

1 minute ago, dll2000 said:

I am basing it on two years plus of public evidence now.  In the available public comparisons Dieter has been better player with the higher potential.

I don't agree with all his points or a lot of his points he says on a lot of things, but Phil and his dad do play by play breakdowns of film on TNLN X's with O's and they say same and they have been screaming and pointing out that Dieter is better from roof tops for some time now.   His dad is a HOF HS coach and knows fundamentals and honestly Phil knows fundamentals too.   

I agree with their analysis of what they see in real time when they break down film.

I gave coaches benefit of doubt, like you,  because of what we don't see.  Practices.  But more I get to see, the more I disagree with Bears coaches on this decision.  

Why the coaches like Mustipher better I can't tell you.   I am not at Halas in meetings.  But coaches aren't always right.   

 

Again, 34 offensive snaps...any film breakdown there is built on nothing but cherry picked plays from a tiny sample size...

You are choosing to see what you want to see and ignore the facts...just because Mustipher is crap does not mean Eiselen is better...it just means he is different crap and given he has now been around for a few years and not made any head way towards beating out Mustipher it should tell you everything you need to know...both suck.

[dll2000]

8 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Again, 34 offensive snaps...any film breakdown there is built on nothing but cherry picked plays from a tiny sample size...

You are choosing to see what you want to see and ignore the facts...just because Mustipher is crap does not mean Eiselen is better...it just means he is different crap and given he has now been around for a few years and not made any head way towards beating out Mustipher it should tell you everything you need to know...both suck.

If you are going to disregard any evidence there is nothing more to say and we are going in circles.  

I get it the coaches have been choosing to play one guy over another.   That is a type of evidence.   It isn't end all be all.  

The reps I see in camp and preseason count.   They count to me.  Especially when they are playing against same guys.   I compare what I see when I get to see it.  

If you are a player and you only get so many reps to prove yourself and you make those reps count and they still don't.  What else can you do?  Nothing.  

A good coach will see it and increase reps and do it against similar competition and see what he is looking at.  See if it is real.  

Dieter just came off bench, only due to injuries, cold.  He had to play Ed Oliver mostly who is a really good football player who theoretically should have dominated him.    And he did pretty good for most part.   He played right and left side.   That isn't easy.   Plus, I would think he gets most of his practice reps at center and not guard.   

He deserves more reps based on reps given.  And frankly we should have seen it earlier as he deserved it earlier.   He may fail or not be good playing full time, but that isn't point.   He shows enough to get more of a chance in my estimation.

 

 

[Madmike90]

5 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

If you are going to disregard any evidence there is nothing more to say and we are going in circles.  

I get it the coaches have been choosing to play one guy over another.   That is a type of evidence.   It isn't end all be all.  

The reps I see in camp and preseason count.   They count to me.  Especially when they are playing against same guys.   I compare what I see when I get to see it.  

If you are a player and you only get so many reps to prove yourself and you make those reps count and they still don't.  What else can you do?  Nothing.  

A good coach will see it and increase reps and do it against similar competition and see what he is looking at.  See if it is real.  

Dieter just came off bench, only due to injuries, cold.  He had to play Ed Oliver mostly who is a really good football player who theoretically should have dominated him.    And he did pretty good for most part.   He played right and left side.   That isn't easy.   Plus, I would think he gets most of his practice reps at center and not guard.   

He deserves more reps based on reps given.  And frankly we should have seen it earlier as he deserved it earlier.   He may fail or not be good playing full time, but that isn't point.   He shows enough to get more of a chance in my estimation.

 

 

Evidence? You mean lack of evidence...34 reps is not evidence and if you want to look at preseason you need to start looking at some high school gym teachers too...

If you want to believe he is good go ahead but their is nothing to suggest it...like you said no point going round in circles.

 

[dll2000]

4 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Evidence? You mean lack of evidence...34 reps is not evidence and if you want to look at preseason you need to start looking at some high school gym teachers too...

If you want to believe he is good go ahead but their is nothing to suggest it...like you said no point going round in circles.

 

Okay let me take a different track.

Let me ask you these questions then since coaches evidence carries so much weight (and I agree it should and does until I see it is visibly wrong or at least should be proved correct on grass).  

How many reps and how much evidence did you need to see of Jenkins before you thought he should be not platooning with Patrick?   

That Jenkins should be starting?  

They talked up Patrick during same time period.

Should we not have had opinions on Jenkins and deferred to coaches who have superior knowledge?   

The coaches didn't decide to start Jenkins until game 5.   That took awhile to decide.  Why so long? There was a lot of public outcry as well.  

And I posit Jenkins may not have played at all but for injury to Patrick limiting him or Patrick played just a little better during those early games.  Jenkins may have languished on bench just like Dieter has.    

If Patrick hadn't been hurting and they hadn't played Jenkins at all up to now would you give the coaches benefit of doubt and be arguing with me that preseason and practice don't matter in regards to Jenkins?

I wonder.  

Coaches can be wrong.  Happens all the time.  Dieter should have at least split reps too when Mustipher was playing like hot garbage.   He has played better of late, but Dieter never got opportunities I say he should have earlier.

Oh look.  I think this guy is too much of a Bears cheerleader, so I hate to cite him, but still.  Someone else agrees with me after last game: