AFlaccoSeagulls Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 5 hours ago, Bullet Club said: Went 3-1 Well folks that just about does it. He went 3-1. Zach Wilson also went 5-2 this year. Put his *** in the top 5 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 Josh Allen's bad games are definitely worse than Burrow's bad games and the bad games aren't exactly infrequent 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Well folks that just about does it. He went 3-1. Zach Wilson also went 5-2 this year. Put his *** in the top 5 as well. When you have to cut out half of what I said to make your weak comparison, you know you don't have a point. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 4 hours ago, AngusMcFife said: Okay so how does that get him to top-3? Mahomes is 4th in passer rating. How is he top 1? Allen is 10th. How is he top 2? I haven't even made an argument for Burrow being top 3. Simply pointing out your argument about weapons is flawed because he's played really well without his best one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Bullet Club said: Mahomes is 4th in passer rating. How is he top 1? Allen is 10th. How is he top 2? I haven't even made an argument for Burrow being top 3. Simply pointing out your argument about weapons is flawed because he's played really well without his best one. Wow, bold stance not making any arguments, just trying nitpick other people's arguments with poor logic. I can't say he's played "really well" in Chase's absence. VS CLE he was definitely below average, he had 2 turnovers and a low Y/A. VS CAR he threw for 206 yards and 1 TD, he was a game manager in a game where his rushing attack ran for 240 yards. VS PIT was his best game, threw for 355 but also had 2 INTs VS TEN he was an okay game manager, 270 yards with 1 TD, league average Y/A. The benefit of having an elite WR corp is that even when the top threat is out, Burrow can still be a decent game manager because he's still got 1 very good WR, another good WR, a good TE, and a rushing attack that singlehandedly won the CAR game. So as far as I can tell, 1 good game (with 2 picks), 1 bad game, and 2 average games. Its decent production, but nothing special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdonnelly21 Posted December 10, 2022 Author Share Posted December 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: Wow, bold stance not making any arguments, just trying nitpick other people's arguments with poor logic. I can't say he's played "really well" in Chase's absence. VS CLE he was definitely below average, he had 2 turnovers and a low Y/A. VS CAR he threw for 206 yards and 1 TD, he was a game manager in a game where his rushing attack ran for 240 yards. VS PIT was his best game, threw for 355 but also had 2 INTs VS TEN he was an okay game manager, 270 yards with 1 TD, league average Y/A. The benefit of having an elite WR corp is that even when the top threat is out, Burrow can still be a decent game manager because he's still got 1 very good WR, another good WR, a good TE, and a rushing attack that singlehandedly won the CAR game. So as far as I can tell, 1 good game (with 2 picks), 1 bad game, and 2 average games. Its decent production, but nothing special. I don't think you're including just how good he is in the clutch. Stats aren't everything. Game management, making plays when needed most which don't show up on the stat sheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malfatron Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 Mahomes Allen Hurts Probably someone that i cant think of rn Burrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 9 hours ago, mdonnelly21 said: I don't think you're including just how good he is in the clutch. Stats aren't everything. Game management, making plays when needed most which don't show up on the stat sheet. Perhaps. I just think if you put Burrow on a team with average weapons, he wouldn't do much to elevate them. He plays well in a system with terrific talent, but if you take that talent away I don't see him as a QB who would transcend his situation. That said, there isn't a great contender for #3 after Mahomes and Allen. Hurts, Geno, and Tua have outperformed Burrow this year, but they also benefit from terrific weapons (and Hurts has a great O-line). Other previously top ranked QBs such as Rodgers, Brady, Lamar, and Herbert have had their supporting cast collapse around them. As far as tiers go, Mahomes and Allen each have their own tier, and then a whole bunch of QBs would be in tier 3. It's also interesting that QBR, which factors in clutch play, ranks Burrow 11th, while his passer rating is 5th. So that would suggest his clutch play isn't really exceptional at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazgul Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 Not enough love for Jared Goff in here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 18 hours ago, Bullet Club said: When you have to cut out half of what I said to make your weak comparison, you know you don't have a point. nothing like using QB winzzzzzz as a way to try to prove a point, amirite?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdonnelly21 Posted December 11, 2022 Author Share Posted December 11, 2022 12 hours ago, AngusMcFife said: Perhaps. I just think if you put Burrow on a team with average weapons, he wouldn't do much to elevate them. He plays well in a system with terrific talent, but if you take that talent away I don't see him as a QB who would transcend his situation. That said, there isn't a great contender for #3 after Mahomes and Allen. Hurts, Geno, and Tua have outperformed Burrow this year, but they also benefit from terrific weapons (and Hurts has a great O-line). Other previously top ranked QBs such as Rodgers, Brady, Lamar, and Herbert have had their supporting cast collapse around them. As far as tiers go, Mahomes and Allen each have their own tier, and then a whole bunch of QBs would be in tier 3. It's also interesting that QBR, which factors in clutch play, ranks Burrow 11th, while his passer rating is 5th. So that would suggest his clutch play isn't really exceptional at all. I was going to use QBR to my advantage until I saw that Burrow ranked 11th, so I decided to keep that out of there haha. It is interesting he's top 5 in passer rating and not even top 10 in QBR. I wonder how much that is given that he got off to a bit of a slow start at the beginning of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 On 12/9/2022 at 6:35 PM, AngusMcFife said: I mean, I try to factor in as many things as possible. How good are the weapons, the coaching, etc. The first thing you have to account with Burrow is that he has one of the elite WR groups to throw to. If you put Burrow on an average team with average WRs, would he elevate them? I'm not sure about that. If you’re factoring in as many things as possible, why are you not factoring in a bad offensive line and a bad play caller/HC? Why are the weapons the only point of contention? All of the top performing QBs of this year have either one high end weapons or multiple very good options (Mahomes, Allen, Tua, Hurts, Herbert, Brady, Cousins, Dak, Lamar), and almost all of them also have better offensive lines. If the argument absolutely hinges on proving a negative, then it’s a weak argument. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMossIsBoss Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 QB rankings are very tough this year w/ Brady, Rodgers and even Russ all struggling. It wouldn’t surprise me to see any of those 3 bounce back next year in terms of production (Brady possibly before season is even over). It’d be disingenuous to put Rodgers or Brady in tier 1 still, but at the same time it feels premature to write off those 1st ballot HOFers. This is not 2015 Peyton situation where the physical drop off was clear as day and you knew he was done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 7 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: nothing like using QB winzzzzzz as a way to try to prove a point, amirite?! Literally none of this is correct. Quit while you're behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 On 12/9/2022 at 3:15 PM, seminoles1 said: Do you hold everyone else to this standard? How would Allen look without Diggs? For 98% of QBs they have to have decent receivers to throw to. They can't do it all by themselves. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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