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Week 14: Ravens @ Steelers


DreamKid

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6 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

Replay very clearly showed Ben Cleveland's arm knocking it out of his hand.

Regardless, I don't disagree. Still a TO in essence - I remember posting mid-game about how it was exactly the dumb type of turnover we've done countless times against the Steelers. So you're correct.

But I was specifically responding to the quote in the post that said "they seemed destined to turn it over", which in and of itself contextually infers he wasn't counting the TOD. 

That quote was in reference to the near turnovers that both backup QBs had. With an entire game, I don’t see either making it out entirely clean.

Huntley’s pass to Andrews was nearly picked. And Anthony Brown had a near pick thrown behind Duvernay IIRC.

Those were both plays that were 50/50 balls that are picked off half the time, but we got the luck of the bounce. Law of averages IMO means x amount of additional balls means x amount of additional risks, and increased risk leads to an increase in negative outcomes that aren’t avoided. Neither backup played the entire game, hence my statement.


 

Back to the previous post, had the argument been Lamar and his propensity to get the guys out of the huddle later than the other two QBs have done and that’s why we lose, that might’ve been an argument with considering. But that’s about the only thing out backups do better IMO.

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3 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

You couldn’t see it until the 3rd/4th replay angle when they were using the all 22 view. Probably would have to watch the rebroadcast to see it. Cleveland pulls and his left forearm/elbow immediately knocks the ball out of Huntley’s hands.

Cant knock him too much tho, Cleveland had a great game otherwise. And recovered another fumble he didn’t cause with that weird joint possession ruling 

 

Can confirm this was the case. Though it looked to me also like Huntley held the ball extended out too long and should’ve moved it inside quicker. IIRC Cleveland was pulling out and so that’s on Huntley, he’s got to hold that ball in tighter. He carried it loose and to the outside too much. I mean it wasn’t a huge deal, but still.

4 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I didn't see this when I watched the highlights just now. The ball was still in his hands until he hits Duvernay, then it comes loose. It doesn't matter too much, it was a garbage play call anyways.

I don’t actually agree. I dislike Roman, but I think that run made a lot of sense. We ran the same run play late in the game with Gus Edwards to ice the game in the 4th quarter on that 3rd and (was it) 2 yards. Go with the fake end around to Duvernay to force the defense to respect the outside run and keep them from playing as tight and that allows just enough space for the interior run to overwhelm in short distance situations.

Plus it forces the defense to think more in the future in those situations, they have to now make a split second assumption vs confidently attacking behind the LOS.

I agree with the pass concepts sucking, but this particular run concept was a good wrinkle to add IMO.

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16 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

I think we’re now vastly overrating the level of that Steelers defense and also vastly overrating the level of regression Lamar has been in this season.

Heck PFF has Lamar rated an 85.2 on the season with Huntley at a 60.3 and considering Lamar’s rushing averages and what’s he had to work with from a weapons stand point, I think I’d probably say he’s more like a 77 rating, but he did start the season of incredibly hot and then he had a down spell and then IMO he was balancing things out the last few games right before the injury with smarter, more mistake free football.

Huntley had some of the same misfires only instead of misfires to Josh Oliver, they were misfires to Andrews. Only Huntley struggles to get zip on his throws outside the hashes and he’s essentially old Big Ben with a seeming inability to push the ball downfield.

I whole heartedly agree about the outside throws thing with Huntley. Watching the highlights, it's definitely not his strength, but let's also not pretend like Lamar pushes the ball down field a lot either - or accurately. Our whole passing offense seems to be short throws over the middle to crossers. Someone can get Lamar's charts or heat maps to correct me because I'm going off of my feelings here when I say that lol

16 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

If it’s not hatred then it’s weird to say Lamar would fumble the bag against like the 24th best defense in the league that got very little pass rush and with us having an elite run game the entire time.

I guess what I'm saying is not that Lamar would fumble the bag, but Roman would. He wouldn't go as run heavy, he would draw up stupid pass plays and right now I don't trust Lamar or anyone else to execute that.

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2 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Can confirm this was the case. Though it looked to me also like Huntley held the ball extended out too long and should’ve moved it inside quicker. IIRC Cleveland was pulling out and so that’s on Huntley, he’s got to hold that ball in tighter. He carried it loose and to the outside too much. I mean it wasn’t a huge deal, but still.

I don’t actually agree. I dislike Roman, but I think that run made a lot of sense. We ran the same run play late in the game with Gus Edwards to ice the game in the 4th quarter on that 3rd and (was it) 2 yards. Go with the fake end around to Duvernay to force the defense to respect the outside run and keep them from playing as tight and that allows just enough space for the interior run to overwhelm in short distance situations.

Plus it forces the defense to think more in the future in those situations, they have to now make a split second assumption vs confidently attacking behind the LOS.

I agree with the pass concepts sucking, but this particular run concept was a good wrinkle to add IMO.

When we ran it with Gus (and we actually ran it with JK on his TD run as well), it was from shotgun which allows for much less stuff to go wrong IMO. I hated the under center thing and I hated it being with Drake instead of literally anyone else

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29 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

I think we’re now vastly overrating the level of that Steelers defense and also vastly overrating the level of regression Lamar has been in this season.

Heck PFF has Lamar rated an 85.2 on the season with Huntley at a 60.3 and considering Lamar’s rushing averages and what’s he had to work with from a weapons stand point, I think I’d probably say he’s more like a 77 rating, but he did start the season of incredibly hot and then he had a down spell and then IMO he was balancing things out the last few games right before the injury with smarter, more mistake free football.

Huntley had some of the same misfires only instead of misfires to Josh Oliver, they were misfires to Andrews. Only Huntley struggles to get zip on his throws outside the hashes and he’s essentially old Big Ben with a seeming inability to push the ball downfield.

If it’s not hatred then it’s weird to say Lamar would fumble the bag against like the 24th best defense in the league that got very little pass rush and with us having an elite run game the entire time.

With the way JKD was tearing it up and the OL was dominating, Lamar likely opens up even more room with his run threat. Giving even more passing lanes.

The Steelers 24th ranked defense that was mainly good against the ground got dominated. Their pass defense isn’t impressive. Just because our backups barely won, doesn’t mean Lamar can’t toss an interception and still win by 2 scores because our offense drops 30 on the Steelers instead of just 16.

Lamar has historically played against much superior defensive versions than this iteration and of recent note hasn’t had the type of run game we had yesterday.

Something a film analyst said today actually made a lot of sense to me and maybe verbalized the general sentiment i have about it a little better.

He talked about how in the previous Ravens/Steelers games a good amount of the turnovers and stalled drives came from Lamar trying to force the ball to Andrews, and it looked like by looking at the film that the coaching staff made a concerted effort to tell the backups this week that they should NOT be spamming Andrews, and worst case to throw it away if he’s covered. 

Now it’s obviously arguable whether forcing the ball to Andrews in previous games was more Lamar “at fault” or the offense/Roman in general, but the idea that our QBs yesterday didn’t really take any chances with it kind of underlines my main point. Maybe Lamar would have played it much safer yesterday too if it was a heavy emphasis in the gameplan all week, or maybe not. No way to really know. But that was my original speculation and hearing a film guy talk about it today kind of validates my original thought process about it in my mind even if I verbalized it in what some people found an anti-lamar way.

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5 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

Something a film analyst said today actually made a lot of sense to me and maybe verbalized the general sentiment i have about it a little better.

He talked about how in the previous Ravens/Steelers games a good amount of the turnovers and stalled drives came from Lamar trying to force the ball to Andrews, and it looked like by looking at the film that the coaching staff made a concerted effort to tell the backups this week that they should NOT be spamming Andrews, and worst case to throw it away if he’s covered. 

Ironically, in almost every highlight I saw, Andrews was always open and was never the first read at any point. Also ironically, when Lamar went down last year Andrews' usage sky rocketed.

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