WEEK 15 Gameday Thread - ARI (4-9) @ DEN (3-10) 2:05 MT

[Broncofan]

 

 

[AKRNA]

Just finished watching some replays and have a few thoughts. I didn't spend much time on the OL, it takes too long, but a few things stuck out. Fleming is just way too leadfooted to play on an island. I watched him on 3 plays. The first two the defender just punched him on the outside shoulder and sprinted around him. The 3rd he overcompensated, the defender took a step to the outside, then came back inside and got a sack.

Our Pass Pro communication is awful, particularly on the IOL.

Rypien surprised me. He really played well nd showed accuracy, mobility and good decision making.  Especially the 2nd half when we went more to a basic WCO and emphasized the run. We finally got a look at what Outen and Kubiak want to do. That'll work. Rypien can win in that system. Once he figures out the speed of NFL D backs the int's should go down.

23 first downs? That's the most this year I think. Time of possession and points scored are near the tops this year also. 

Personally I'd like to watch that offense again. We need to really evaluate personnel and coaches these last three games. Playing Wilson does none of that.

[paul-mac]

The Jeudy trade stuff shouldn’t quieten down after the last couple of games. Jeudy, Sutton and Patrick should be our clear top 3 next season. 

[broncos67]

Nice win. Amazing what happens when you establish the run and/or are able to run the ball effectively. That was a nice change of pace. Murray looked particularly good today. 

Defense played well overall. Obviously McCoy going down made a world of difference because McSorley simply is not an NFL caliber QB. DeShawn Williams had himself a nice game. Simmons and Surtain as well. 

One note - we need a full gutting of ST personnel going into next season. McManus and Waitman both need to go. McManus has been trending downhill for some time. Waitman stinks. 

I don't think this changes anything as far as next season goes though. Beating another bad team at home and needing the 2nd string QB to get hurt to do it isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of Hackett.

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, broncos67 said:

Nice win. Amazing what happens when you establish the run and/or are able to run the ball effectively. That was a nice change of pace. Murray looked particularly good today. 

Defense played well overall. Obviously McCoy going down made a world of difference because McSorley simply is not an NFL caliber QB. DeShawn Williams had himself a nice game. Simmons and Surtain as well. 

One note - we need a full gutting of ST personnel going into next season. McManus and Waitman both need to go. McManus has been trending downhill for some time. Waitman stinks. 

I don't think this changes anything as far as next season goes though. Beating another bad team at home and needing the 2nd string QB to get hurt to do it isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of Hackett.

Agreed.   The W is great - but it also should be recognized that the 1H O was abysmal.    And the 21 pt 2H was fuelled by the D stifling the ARI O into a TO that put the ball deep in ARI territory for 1 possession, and controlling the field position game (although Waitman's punting and net gain did help them a lot in the 2H - but yes, he's been downright awful - just not yesterday nearly as much as b4).     The initial game plan that Hackett drew up (because he's still doing that part, right?) for the 1H was an outright disaster.   

Rypien's limitations in both his arm & pocket mobility (not the ability to run on his own, but just extend the play within the pocket) were also on display - but this isn't anything new, or unknown (his RZ TO was a killer - he thought Watt went offsides, but also thought he could fit in a ball his arm couldn't deliver on, too).   He's a very serviceable backup at rookie contract prices.     To be fair to him, about 4 of the 7 sacks were completely dead-man walking - god, the OL was brutal.   Yet the pre-game plan used was so vanilla, and stale in the 1H..and that's Hackett's area.  The game plan that Hackett & co. drew up this week in the 1H was just an outright fail - the runs had zero creativity (dive), and the passes were all short-area targets to guys who can't make the D miss.  I get the OL struggles, contributed to this a lot, but again these are also scripted plays that Hackett uses...and man, it was tough to watch.

I attribute the 2H improvements not just to the D's awesome work, but also Kubiak's in-game adjustment to use more variety in the run, and target Jeudy more (ironically, first 2 plays of game were short Jeudy passes, and then I think it was 1 more target rest of 1H, and a lot of despair - 5 targets in the first 20 mins of 2H were all that was needed, with the run game success, to salt the game away).  Again, 1H re-game preparation - the struggles there were very much is due to the plan they draw up for the week.   The fact it was THAT awful, well it again speaks to the pre-game planning and sophistication.   And that part is ALL Hackett. 

And as he is the overseer, Hackett's blind support and non-intervention with the OL coaching staff, well he wears that too.   The G injuries in-game suck, but deliberating putting Wattenberg at G last week, and having Fleming play over Anderson, and cutting Muti - they all look like awful decisions....and frankly, not difficult ones.   

Finally, I don't think the W is going to generate that much enthusiasm within the fanbase.   The no-show #'s for the final LAC game could be even higher.  That's probably going to be the death knell for Hackett.   And while I've done nothing but defend Paton's position - frankly, I would question that if he really felt Hackett could be part of the solution for 2023.   He's still a massive part of the problem.   Wilson doesn't get absolved, but Hackett's not part of any solution I see. 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Broncofan

[Broncofan]

4 hours ago, paul-mac said:

The Jeudy trade stuff shouldn’t quieten down after the last couple of games. Jeudy, Sutton and Patrick should be our clear top 3 next season. 

I just did it myself with Meinerz/Risner, so not throwing stones in a glass house, but I think you meant "should quiet down"?

Jeudy's pretty clearly asserting himself as the X in this O.   Having him go there and also move around (to help mitigate the double-teams D's are sending his way) is unlocking his skill set.  It's a bright spot (along with Dulcich. when they use him) in an otherwise painful pass game.    It also helps create a potential 2nd bigger mismatch to have Sutton play big slot when he returns (but also flip them around, to avoid D's from setting static coverage schemes they can be be comfortable with all game long).   Especially with the box-out ability, that can work.   We're seeing more of this (big body slots) as a way of overcoming the quick-twitch shifty-but-smaller CB's D's are using in the slot.  

Only took 13 games before the staff thought of this...but I'll take it lol.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Broncofan

[Broncofan]

He'll probably be a cap casualty regardless, but to echo the point made before - McManus isn't even close to worth the $.   Saving 2.6M is a no-brainer if you're not even league-average.     And again, for Hackett to have put his trust in a guy saying he's good from 60+ with the SEA game...outside of DEN....man.      I'd expect we see not just a new coaching staff for 2023, but a whole new ST pair too.   

Edited December 19, 2022 by Broncofan

[AnAngryAmerican]

1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

He'll probably be a cap casualty regardless, but to echo the point made before - McManus isn't even close to worth the $.   Saving 2.6M is a no-brainer if you're not even league-average.     And again, for Hackett to have put his trust in a guy saying he's good from 60+ with the SEA game...outside of DEN....man.      I'd expect we see not just a new coaching staff for 2023, but a whole new ST pair too.   

Agreed. McManus has been a very good kicker for us for a long time but he’s clearly lost some of it, time I move on. 

[anewdawn]

14 hours ago, Broncofan said:

I know there’s a segment of fans who think Hackett might get a 2nd year.   Don’t see it with this level of fan apathy towards the team.  

Haven't watched a single play in three weeks except for the girl throw that the network cut in and showed while I was watching the niner game - the Mahomes throw that mocked us!  My wife is stunned that I haven't watched.  I go back to the Craig Morton years and thought of myself as a rabid bronco fan.  I never miss games.  This season has deflated me.  And I guess i'm not alone because the number of no shows speaks volumes especially when you consider that amount vis a vis a game we really had a chance at and ultimately won.  It was like who even cares!!!!!  And then through one of these threads I find out we don't have a second rounder this year.  I so hope some miracle turnaround can happen.  Guess it will be like the 5/6th year in a row that we all are in that HOPE situation.  

[AKRNA]

31 minutes ago, anewdawn said:

Haven't watched a single play in three weeks except for the girl throw that the network cut in and showed while I was watching the niner game - the Mahomes throw that mocked us!  My wife is stunned that I haven't watched.  I go back to the Craig Morton years and thought of myself as a rabid bronco fan.  I never miss games.  This season has deflated me.  And I guess i'm not alone because the number of no shows speaks volumes especially when you consider that amount vis a vis a game we really had a chance at and ultimately won.  It was like who even cares!!!!!  And then through one of these threads I find out we don't have a second rounder this year.  I so hope some miracle turnaround can happen.  Guess it will be like the 5/6th year in a row that we all are in that HOPE situation.  

It kind of reminds me of the pre-Ralston era. Everywhere you look it's a mess and the annual theme is "yeah, well, just wait til' next year"

[AnAngryAmerican]

1 hour ago, anewdawn said:

Haven't watched a single play in three weeks except for the girl throw that the network cut in and showed while I was watching the niner game - the Mahomes throw that mocked us!  My wife is stunned that I haven't watched.  I go back to the Craig Morton years and thought of myself as a rabid bronco fan.  I never miss games.  This season has deflated me.  And I guess i'm not alone because the number of no shows speaks volumes especially when you consider that amount vis a vis a game we really had a chance at and ultimately won.  It was like who even cares!!!!!  And then through one of these threads I find out we don't have a second rounder this year.  I so hope some miracle turnaround can happen.  Guess it will be like the 5/6th year in a row that we all are in that HOPE situation.  

It’s really where I’ve come down. I’ve been watching as much of the other games as I have the Broncos, especially if there’s an intriguing afternoon game on opposite us. 

I really think the disappointment and subsequent apathy comes from the fact that we thought this season would be different. The last 4-5 years I expected a world of suck as I had no faith in the coaching staff or the QB, among other problems, this year I thought we’d at make a run at the playoffs. 

I loved getting Russ and I thought Hackett was a good hire to put together a green but promising staff. That let down when it’s turned out to be a flaming hot mess just sapped my interest in the team. There’s so many good teams playing interesting football I’d rather watch that than us go 3-out again and again. 

[Broncofan]

 

Given he was immediately ruled out, I suspect Meinerz may be one - the NYG TE Bellinger missed 4-5 games with the same type of mechanism with his eye injury.   Would obv suck.   Wonder if Hinton is in the same boat. 

[jolly red giant]

There needs to be a bit of realism brought to some of the comments here -

- Brett Rypien won a game against an injury revaged team using a third string QB, with a pretty porus defence (coached by one Vance Joseph).

- The Broncos scored 4 TDs against the Chiefs - and 3 against this poor Cards team

- Brett Rypien might be smarter than Wilson (he probably is and likely will end up a better coach than a player - reminds me of a poor man's Gary Kubiak) - but Rypien has nothing like the talent of skillset of Russell Wilson

- Yes the Broncos made half-time adjustments against the Cards - they also made half-time adjustments against the Chiefs (remember being down 27-0?)

- The offence improved under Wilson over the previous two games and seemed to continue that improvement under Rypien - maybe - just maybe - that is down to Kubiak calling the plays

- Someone suggested that Outten contributed to this improvement - there is zero evidence for this.

- Hackett is still a bad HC and it would be a major mistake not to sack him at the end of this season (and have a major clearout of other positions as well). 

- Remember - the Cards are a bad team - just like the previous win against the Jags - another bad team who were very poor in London.

[lomaxgrUK]

Sometimes Football really isn't that complicated - when you run the ball the well, it means Rypien is having to convert 3rd and 1 / 2 / 3 rather than 3rd and 8+, or stay out of 3rd down entirely.

Conversely, if you happen to have an excellent QB, you can present great run looks by forcing the opposing Defense into favourable looks.

As others have said, I don't want to go overboard because it was a 2nd half performance against a injury-riddled team that isn't that great fully healthy. But I felt we did get an insight into how this Offense could have looked if Wilson had been remotely competent with completing those short 5 to 8 yard passes, thus keeping us out of 3rd and long and not putting unnecessary pressure on a depleted (and incompetent) Offensive Line.

Being a shorter QB naturally makes those shorter passes (i.e right behind the OL/DL) more difficult; it further adds to the genius of Drew Brees. Wilson had great accuracy last year though which is what I bought into. Frustrating.

[Broncofan]

8 hours ago, jolly red giant said:

There needs to be a bit of realism brought to some of the comments here -

- Brett Rypien won a game against an injury revaged team using a third string QB, with a pretty porus defence (coached by one Vance Joseph).

- The Broncos scored 4 TDs against the Chiefs - and 3 against this poor Cards team

- Brett Rypien might be smarter than Wilson (he probably is and likely will end up a better coach than a player - reminds me of a poor man's Gary Kubiak) - but Rypien has nothing like the talent of skillset of Russell Wilson

- Yes the Broncos made half-time adjustments against the Cards - they also made half-time adjustments against the Chiefs (remember being down 27-0?)

- The offence improved under Wilson over the previous two games and seemed to continue that improvement under Rypien - maybe - just maybe - that is down to Kubiak calling the plays

- Someone suggested that Outten contributed to this improvement - there is zero evidence for this.

- Hackett is still a bad HC and it would be a major mistake not to sack him at the end of this season (and have a major clearout of other positions as well). 

- Remember - the Cards are a bad team - just like the previous win against the Jags - another bad team who were very poor in London.

To further drive home the points: 

-Our O looked terrible for most if not all of the 1H both games.   Outten / Hackett have a major role in the pregame prep that occurs.    The O struggles in the 1H falls under their scope more esp since Hackett’s confirmed they run a script of plays first. 
 

-The biggest adjustments have been in the 2H.  If anything it’s Kubiak as play caller who deserves the credit.   
 

-Let’s not forget it’s Hackett who turtled up (again) in the BAL game with taking the FG at the 2Q on 4th and inches and then Outten/Hackett pulling our 3 best receivers (Jeudy/Dulcich/Hinton) for what would have been a game ending 1st down - and then throwing it (Kubiak calls the plays from booth but doesn’t manage personnel obv - that’s Outten / Hackett on sidelines).  
 

There’s literally no evidence anything Hackett’s involved in O has improved.   And again he oversees the OL coaches decisions.  

The narrative Hackett is improving on the OC side is wild.    
 

I expect we’ll win the LAR game.   And none of that would justify keeping Hackett.  The O production only gives more shine to Kubiak given the 2H adjustments are his area, the run game and Jeudy.    The areas Hackett actually works at are still our worst areas.    If anything it only drives home how much we need to part ways. 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Broncofan