Pugger Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 34 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said: GB has a better coach and far better QB. Other than that, the difference between CLE and GB isn't much, and right now GB does not have the QB advantage. Lets see. Would you take the Browns WRs over ours? I wouldn't. How about their RBs? I'll take our 3 (Ty, Jones and Williams) over theirs. They have a good line but lost Joe Thomas. When healthy our line is one of best in the league. On defense they have Miles Garrett so they have a real playmaker on the DL. Their LB corps isn't appreciably better than ours. Their secondary is a push IMO. They have a better punter but he gets a lot of practice. I'll take Mason over theirs. IMO this talk about us being the Browns without AR doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 1 minute ago, Pugger said: IMO this talk about us being the Browns without AR doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Honestly, this hyperbole doesn't really have much weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrimiv Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 19 hours ago, Pugger said: Lets see. Would you take the Browns WRs over ours? I wouldn't. How about their RBs? I'll take our 3 (Ty, Jones and Williams) over theirs. They have a good line but lost Joe Thomas. When healthy our line is one of best in the league. On defense they have Miles Garrett so they have a real playmaker on the DL. Their LB corps isn't appreciably better than ours. Their secondary is a push IMO. They have a better punter but he gets a lot of practice. I'll take Mason over theirs. IMO this talk about us being the Browns without AR doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Yes, it does. The fact that you choose to view every comparison in a favorable light in favor of GB does not make your view correct. Ask 100 neutral observers whether CLE or GB has more talent on defense, and I am very confident GB loses that discussion. As for the offense, the fact that you view the GB backfield as superior to Crowell and Johnson tells me all I need to know. GB was 4-1 when Rodgers went down. With Hundley at QB, I don't think it's any kind of a stretch to think that 3 of those wins (SEA, CIN, DAL) are flipped to a loss. That puts GB at 2-8, right in CLE territory. I think the argument that this GB team without Rodgers is not very far off from CLE holds up just fine under scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 1 minute ago, Mazrimiv said: Yes, it does. The fact that you choose to view every comparison in a favorable light in favor of GB does make your view correct. Ask 100 neutral observers whether CLE or GB has more talent on defense, and I am very confident GB loses that discussion. As for the offense, the fact that you view the GB backfield as superior to Crowell and Johnson tells me all I need to know. GB was 4-1 when Rodgers went down. With Hundley at QB, I don't think it's any kind of a stretch to think that 3 of those wins (SEA, CIN, DAL) are flipped to a loss. That puts GB at 2-8, right in CLE territory. I think the argument that this GB team without Rodgers is not very far off from CLE holds up just fine under scrutiny. I haven't seen any of their games so I did a little looking at the NFL website's team stats and other sites before I made that post. Crowell and Johnson's numbers are not all that superior to Jone and Adams from what I could find. Cleveland has some nice players but outside of a few on the defensive side of the ball their roster isn't as good as ours. IMO our defense is playing like garbage because of our DC. You can't compare the schedules because Cleveland's SOS isn't the same. There is a good chance we'll lose to this team but that will be because of their QB over Hundley and they are at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooters22 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 22 hours ago, Mazrimiv said: I never see tanking as the correct strategy. That being said, with Hundley at QB I only see two winnable games on the remaining schedule, and zero likely wins. I have a suspicion that CLE will be getting their only win of the year in week 14 at home vs GB. I hope you aren't right with your prediction of Cleveland getting their only win against us. But great post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fussnputz Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Should the Packers lose out? Somewhat ambiguous wording. Do you mean: Should the Packers intentionally lose out? No! Absolutely NOT. That would compromise both the integrity of the game and the integrity of the coaches and players. Can you imagine MM going into the Packer's locker room and saying, "Men, TT and I have thought it over and we want you all to go out there for the rest of the season and give a half hearted effort to make sure we lose out, because TT and I want a higher draft choice next April." That scenario is ludicrous on its face! MM would lose the locker room forever. He would have to be replaced. As would TT. The NFL would insist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 First off, teams and players don't tank. That being said, I'm moving closer to the I'd be fine with losing stance. As I've mentioned before, you really need to go 10-6 to pretty much guarantee a playoff spot. Only once since 2010 has a team gone 9-7 and made the playoffs, and that was last year. Let's assume Rodgers can make it back against the Vikings and wins our final two games. That means we have to go 3-1 in our next four games in order to get to 10 wins. Does anyone realistically think that's going to happen? Because I certainly don't. I anticipate a loss against the Steelers, and a win against the Browns which means we'd need to win against the Buccaneers and Panthers. Possible, but unlikely. At this point, if a higher draft pick makes our team better I'm all for it. If we finish 6-10 and armed with a top 10 pick, that creates a ton more flexibility to improve our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jontat83 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Yeah intentionally losing out doesn't really happen imo. But we could lose out because we are bad enough with Rodgers to actually lose out. In terms of getting a higher draft pick I'm just kind of down on this team right now and the organisation where I have questions whether getting a higher draft pick would actually matter that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 1 hour ago, jontat83 said: Yeah intentionally losing out doesn't really happen imo. But we could lose out because we are bad enough with Rodgers to actually lose out. In terms of getting a higher draft pick I'm just kind of down on this team right now and the organisation where I have questions whether getting a higher draft pick would actually matter that much. Don't be. I truly believe if we had a competent QB instead of Hundley all these weeks nobody would be feeling as you do. Fix the defense and get #12 back 2018 should be a lot of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReadyToThump Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 We'll probably lose out without trying anyway(maybe not to CLE)... I am hoping for the highest draft pick possible aswell. So categorize me in that boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SassyFascistAlphaGuy Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 2 points: 1. The talent disparity between the best team in the league and the worst team is not as big as some think. 2. The QB is the most important position. We likely have the worst starting QB in the NFL right now. If we had the 16th best QB in the NFL, which by metrics would be Tyrod Taylor, would GB have more wins right now than they do with Hundley? I say absolutely yes. GB has the talent to survive with middle tier QBs. They don't have the talent to survive with the worst QB in the conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinneasGage Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 I'd be disappointed with wins at this point. It's not really like we have a choice w/ losing out tho w/ Hundley under center Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 I think we'd have the 16th overall pick in the draft at this point considering our record and the fact that we beat the Cowboys and Bengals. Ravens, Cardinals, Bengals, Cowboys, Chargers, Raiders, Redskins, Texans, Dolphins, Jets, Buccaneers are teams we want to root for that have a legitimate chance in passing us in the draft order. I think the Bears, Broncos, Colts, Giants, Niners, Browns have all cemented their place in the top six. The best we could possibly hope for is 7th overall. The most realistic we could possibly hope for is 10th overall. We'll probably end up 12th-15th overall. To me, that's not worth it. I'd still rather beat the Buccaneers, Browns, surprise everyone with a win against the Panthers and have Rodgers help us beat the Vikings and Lions to get to 10 wins. Man, that Steelers loss last night really hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 1 hour ago, HorizontoZenith said: I think we'd have the 16th overall pick in the draft at this point considering our record and the fact that we beat the Cowboys and Bengals. Ravens, Cardinals, Bengals, Cowboys, Chargers, Raiders, Redskins, Texans, Dolphins, Jets, Buccaneers are teams we want to root for that have a legitimate chance in passing us in the draft order. I think the Bears, Broncos, Colts, Giants, Niners, Browns have all cemented their place in the top six. The best we could possibly hope for is 7th overall. The most realistic we could possibly hope for is 10th overall. We'll probably end up 12th-15th overall. To me, that's not worth it. I'd still rather beat the Buccaneers, Browns, surprise everyone with a win against the Panthers and have Rodgers help us beat the Vikings and Lions to get to 10 wins. Man, that Steelers loss last night really hurts. Even if we end up with the 12th-15th pick it would still be higher than any we've had since 2009. It would have been nice to win last night but at least we showed the world we aren't devoid of talent outside #12. The Steelers defense is much better than the Ravens' and we were on the road with several starters in street clothes. Let's say we find a way to play .500 ball before Rodgers returns and somehow sneak into the playoffs. With this defense we'd be one and done anyway so IMO sneaking into the playoffs isn't worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 I'd like to have a top 10 pick ... really need a potential impact player of some sort. The higher up the better. The playoffs are a huge long shot at this point and I think a stud rookie would do us more good next year than a couple of wins over bad teams like the Browns and the Bucs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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