Where are you ranking Messi and Ronaldo all time?

[amac]

With the tail end of their primes seeming to be nearly over (probably completely in Cristiano’s case) and with Messi’s performance en route to winning the World Cup, where are you ranking these two among all time greats?

To me Messi is comfortably the best ever, even if he hadn’t won a World Cup. He combines so many amazing skills together, there is no one else that could score like Pele, dribble like Maradona and pass and create chances for others with the best. It is hard to compare players from different eras, but to do it with the longevity he has and to win all of the trophies and honors that he has in the modern era, as opposed to say Pele, who played in a time when the game was different, the caliber of opposition was not consistently as high,and the best players were not concentrated on one continent, I feel comfortable in saying he is the greatest player of all time. 

For similar reasons I rank Cristiano the 2nd best of all time, incredible haul of trophies and accolades and incredible goal scoring record, especially for a guy who didn’t play as a #9 for a lot of his career. I believe the only players with comparable goal tallies were out and out strikers whose game revolved around finishing off chances rather than creating them, although Cristiano became more of a poacher in the later stages of his career.

 

It’s hard to rank guys from previous eras, but always fun. 3-5 are relatively interchangeable for me. Based on what I know of them and footage I’ve seen, for me:

Messi 

Cristiano

Ronaldo (Brazil)

Pele

Maradona

Cruyff

Zidane

Beckenbauer

Maldini

Platini

HM: Iniesta, Best, Eusebio, Puskas, Di Stefano, Xavi, Van Basten

Edited December 18, 2022 by amac

[Heimdallr]

Messi is the single greatest athlete in the history of team sports. 

Ronaldo is the #2 footballer of the modern era. 

[packerstk7]

Messi is #1 for sure. His goal scoring stats are crazy, but he also does the passing, dribbling, at every level.

I really wish Brazilian Ronaldo didn’t get hurt. He was essentially unstoppable.

[mikemike778]

The thing that makes it so hard to compare eras is rule changes.

Messi makes the game looks easy but you need to take into account, the game is infinitely easier for forwards now. The likes of Neymar complain about getting fouled but the reality is what is a straight red now would be a polite word from the ref in the Maradona years. The game now is a lot faster but it is far less physical (massive understatement) so athletes like Messi can dominate games - put Messi into 1986 and he is likely kicked out of matches.

I would say the following three were the best of their era but I don't think anyone can definitively say who was best, everyone has their own preferences

• Messi
• Pele
• Maradona

Peak Maradona was probably the best of them - the way he dominated games playing for lesser teams in an era of violent tackles was breathtaking. But peak Maradona didn't last very long.

Pele is probably the best for me. Astonishing goal record, three world cups. Dominated the world in an era when it was OK to kick people out of games.

Recency bias means most say Messi and he has achieved everything possible now with a world cup so makes a convincing case for best ever. Until the world cup, I had him 3rd behind Pele and Maradona but probably surpasses Maradona on my list now. 

I don't think Portugese Ronaldo would be in the conversation. The reality is that since he joined Juventus, he has made every team worse (Juventus, United, Portugal). Again recency bias in that its easy to forget what he did earlier in his career but I wouldn't have in the same conversation as Messi, Pele and Maradona. He would be in another tier of players like Cruyuff, Beckenbaur , Maldini and so on.

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by mikemike778

[Hunter2_1]

Yeah, with the caveats already mentioned…

Messi

Maradona

Pele or Ronaldo here 

 

Maradona looked quite a bit like Messi on pitches where you couldn’t run in a straight line for all the bumps and divots. Ridiculous player. There’s nothing he couldn’t do with a football, you should watch some compilations of him. this from an Englishman 

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Hunter2_1

[malak1]

I feel like I've cheated myself by missing out on Messi and C. Ronaldo in the same era. Obviously, I knew who they were and knew they were good, I just never really followed soccer as much as I did the big 4 american sports as well as boxing. I was only a casual follower (World Cup, European Cup, etc.). 

[UKTexans]

There's no question at this point.

Lionel Messi is the GOAT.

However, if you asked me to create a team from scratch and I had to pick one of them in their prime I'd take Ronaldo.

[Hunter2_1]

On 5/1/2023 at 2:42 PM, malak1 said:

I feel like I've cheated myself by missing out on Messi and C. Ronaldo in the same era. Obviously, I knew who they were and knew they were good, I just never really followed soccer as much as I did the big 4 american sports as well as boxing. I was only a casual follower (World Cup, European Cup, etc.). 

2010-2013 was the peak for this, IMO. When Messi's Barca and Ronnie's Real had so many high profile games in all their tournaments. Brilliant time to be a soccer fan. Some of those games are on youtube, in full.

[TedLavie]

I find it absolutely impossible to rank people I have never seen play, so I'm out on this debate. 

What I can say is that Messi is comfortably the best player I have ever seen play. His wins in Copa America and World Cup cemented to me his status as the best player in 21st century. 

For the #2 spot it's either CR7 or Zidane. CR7 has better stats, better longetivity and more trophies, but I think Zidane always made his teams better, and I don't think the same can be said for C.Ronaldo. Zidane NT success also is clearly superior to CR7. 

Ronaldo (Brazil) and Ronaldinho didn't have the longevity to compete for 2nd place but their prime years were insane. 

 

[amac]

On 12/30/2022 at 6:48 AM, mikemike778 said:

The thing that makes it so hard to compare eras is rule changes.

Messi makes the game looks easy but you need to take into account, the game is infinitely easier for forwards now. The likes of Neymar complain about getting fouled but the reality is what is a straight red now would be a polite word from the ref in the Maradona years. The game now is a lot faster but it is far less physical (massive understatement) so athletes like Messi can dominate games - put Messi into 1986 and he is likely kicked out of matches.

I would say the following three were the best of their era but I don't think anyone can definitively say who was best, everyone has their own preferences

• Messi
• Pele
• Maradona

Peak Maradona was probably the best of them - the way he dominated games playing for lesser teams in an era of violent tackles was breathtaking. But peak Maradona didn't last very long.

Pele is probably the best for me. Astonishing goal record, three world cups. Dominated the world in an era when it was OK to kick people out of games.

Recency bias means most say Messi and he has achieved everything possible now with a world cup so makes a convincing case for best ever. Until the world cup, I had him 3rd behind Pele and Maradona but probably surpasses Maradona on my list now. 

I don't think Portugese Ronaldo would be in the conversation. The reality is that since he joined Juventus, he has made every team worse (Juventus, United, Portugal). Again recency bias in that its easy to forget what he did earlier in his career but I wouldn't have in the same conversation as Messi, Pele and Maradona. He would be in another tier of players like Cruyuff, Beckenbaur , Maldini and so on.

 

While it's true that alot more hacking was allowed on attacking players back in the day, if you watch those old games of say the Pele era, attackers had so much more time on the ball compared to nowadays and generally there was a lot more space and time on the ball then is allowed today, and I believe fitness levels are much higher as they have had to adapt with the game. Defensive tactics and organization were also not near what they are today. So I actually think the modern era is much more difficult for attackers.

You can't really hold that against a Pele, as if dropped into the modern game as a 17 year old he may have adapted and dominated just as much, but occam's razor to me is Messi is the greatest. Although if you wanted to argue Pele's influence on the game and him being ahead of his time makes him the best I couldn't really fault that

Edited May 27, 2023 by amac

[BullsandBroncos]

I've always slightly gravitated towards Ronaldo because he dominated in the 3 best leagues in Europe all while playing different roles and styles in each league.

 

[BucsDraftGeek47]

Pele

Messi

Cristiano Ronaldo

Maradona

Imo Messi gets too much hype, no offense but La Liga and the French league dont hold a candle to the EPL, he did win the World Cup though so that holds a ton of weight for me, but Pele won 3, so for me he wont get dethroned from #1

[DreamKid]

On 12/30/2022 at 4:48 AM, mikemike778 said:

I don't think Portugese Ronaldo would be in the conversation. The reality is that since he joined Juventus, he has made every team worse (Juventus, United, Portugal). Again recency bias in that its easy to forget what he did earlier in his career but I wouldn't have in the same conversation as Messi, Pele and Maradona. He would be in another tier of players like Cruyuff, Beckenbaur , Maldini and so on.

I think as time goes on Ronaldo will continue to be lowered on these all time lists. The Messi vs Ronaldo talk was fun for a generation of fans who saw them as the stars of soccer's biggest clubs, but no one serious or without bias actually believes Ronaldo is the GOAT or is even in that tier from what I can see. 

[mikemike778]

11 hours ago, DreamKid said:

I think as time goes on Ronaldo will continue to be lowered on these all time lists. The Messi vs Ronaldo talk was fun for a generation of fans who saw them as the stars of soccer's biggest clubs, but no one serious or without bias actually believes Ronaldo is the GOAT or is even in that tier from what I can see. 

I think so too.

Messi,  Maradona, Pele

These three were the best players of their generation.  GOAT discussions are fun but there are so many reasons why they aren't comparable. Messi playing in 86 wouldn't last 5 minutes.  But Maradona now simply wouldn't be fit enough.  Reality is both would be completely different players to how we know them if they were dropped in another generation. 

Messi winning the world cup has changed things in my mind to some extent although he obviously didn't dominate the tournament the way Maradona did in 86.  

[DreamKid]

11 hours ago, mikemike778 said:

I think so too.

Messi,  Maradona, Pele

These three were the best players of their generation.  GOAT discussions are fun but there are so many reasons why they aren't comparable. Messi playing in 86 wouldn't last 5 minutes.  But Maradona now simply wouldn't be fit enough.  Reality is both would be completely different players to how we know them if they were dropped in another generation. 

Messi winning the world cup has changed things in my mind to some extent although he obviously didn't dominate the tournament the way Maradona did in 86.  

Exactly. In 10 years no one is going to be putting the young stars of today's game up against those three names, and that's why they're just in a separate category. Whereas Ronaldo's place on the all time lists might have to contend with some of the current talent that's lighting it up.