Week 16: San Francisco 49ers vs Washington Commanders

[49ersfan]

 

[757-NINER]

9 hours ago, Forge said:

I think it's just more of the "vibes" thing, and the opinion that players have been more vocal in their support and pumping up Purdy (and Jimmy) over Lance. 

Like, how often can you think of anyone (besides aiyuk, I guess) really seeming chummy with Lance or going out of their way to praise him? I think that was more or less the point

But Lance has never played enough for guys to heap effusive praise on him really. That kind of camaraderie only comes from proving yourself  Guys were talking up Lance during TC his rookie year and how he was looking the part, early. Then the seaosn rolled around and it was all about Jimmy becasue in games that actually count, he had been proven.  

I don't think it has anything to do about with being chummy. Guys gravitate to players who prove themselves. Purdy has proved himself over these last four games. Players, especially vets, appreciate guys who put them in position to win and be successful in the post-season. Purdy has shown himself to do just that so of course, guys are going to rally around that fact.

But all that doesn't mean **** in the grand scheme of things. Lance will still get his opportunity to prove himself, as should be the case. His ceiling is vastly higher than Purdy's. And Purdy will get every opportunity to prove that depsite lacking the physcial tools, he is indeed the QBOTF. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

So Kittle put up all world type of stats with Beathard/Mullens in 2018, same in terms of per game averages in 2020 and now is putting up big numbers with Purdy. I'd love to see the difference in his stats per game with Jimmy opposed to without Jimmy. Does it just seem like there is a big difference when in reality it's all the same or is there an actual difference? 

[Forge]

1 hour ago, 757-NINER said:

But Lance has never played enough for guys to heap effusive praise on him really. That kind of camaraderie only comes from proving yourself  Guys were talking up Lance during TC his rookie year and how he was looking the part, early. Then the seaosn rolled around and it was all about Jimmy becasue in games that actually count, he had been proven.  

 

Lance has played as much as Purdy. You know what I think the difference is? Lance isn't winning. I think if he had won, people would have been much more effusive. 

[Forge]

34 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

So Kittle put up all world type of stats with Beathard/Mullens in 2018, same in terms of per game averages in 2020 and now is putting up big numbers with Purdy. I'd love to see the difference in his stats per game with Jimmy opposed to without Jimmy. Does it just seem like there is a big difference when in reality it's all the same or is there an actual difference? 

Not atypical for tight ends to be security blankets for young QBs or backups, so it wouldn't be that surprising. In 2018 there was probably a double whammy because there was really nobody else to throw to. Pettis isn't very good and while Bourne turned into a competent WR, he wasn't quite there yet in 2018. 

Right now with Purdy, George has basically done the George thing. He's had two games that were relatively unproductive, and then two monster games. 

Now, to be clear...I can't vouch for accuracy of these numbers, however it does seem to line up.  WhatI have is: 

Kittle w/o Jimmy: 7 targets / gm, 5 catches, 71.6 ypg, 14.4 avg, .4 td / g

Kittle w/Jimmy: 6.4 targets / gm, 4.76 catches per game, 61.3 ypg, .33 td/gm. 

So there is a slight bump, but probably not as much I as I would have thought when accounting for 2018 

[J-ALL-DAY]

25 minutes ago, Forge said:

Not atypical for tight ends to be security blankets for young QBs or backups, so it wouldn't be that surprising. In 2018 there was probably a double whammy because there was really nobody else to throw to. Pettis isn't very good and while Bourne turned into a competent WR, he wasn't quite there yet in 2018. 

Right now with Purdy, George has basically done the George thing. He's had two games that were relatively unproductive, and then two monster games. 

Now, to be clear...I can't vouch for accuracy of these numbers, however it does seem to line up.  WhatI have is: 

Kittle w/o Jimmy: 7 targets / gm, 5 catches, 71.6 ypg, 14.4 avg, .4 td / g

Kittle w/Jimmy: 6.4 targets / gm, 4.76 catches per game, 61.3 ypg, .33 td/gm. 

So there is a slight bump, but probably not as much I as I would have thought when accounting for 2018 

Are you counting the rookie season stats as well or only post 2017? Because I'd be really interested in seeing how he performed with the back up QBs when he REALLY became George Kittle. The thing is, I don't even know if it's about Kittle being a security blanket as much as it is of Kittle getting more targets down the field? 

Thanks for the numbers though, having 10 more ypg is pretty significant. 

[Forge]

6 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Are you counting the rookie season stats as well or only post 2017? Because I'd be really interested in seeing how he performed with the back up QBs when he REALLY became George Kittle. The thing is, I don't even know if it's about Kittle being a security blanket as much as it is of Kittle getting more targets down the field? 

Thanks for the numbers though, having 10 more ypg is pretty significant. 

It includes all his games 

[J-ALL-DAY]

48 minutes ago, Forge said:

It includes all his games 

If it isn't too much for you, would you be able to take out the 2017 numbers and see if that makes even more of a difference? 

[Forge]

12 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

If it isn't too much for you, would you be able to take out the 2017 numbers and see if that makes even more of a difference? 

101 catches on 144 targets

1561 yards 

9 touchdowns 

14 total games 

10 targets / gm, 7.2 receptions, 111.5 yards per game, .64 TD per game 

LOL. Yeah, there's a difference. 

[757-NINER]

2 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

So Kittle put up all world type of stats with Beathard/Mullens in 2018, same in terms of per game averages in 2020 and now is putting up big numbers with Purdy. I'd love to see the difference in his stats per game with Jimmy opposed to without Jimmy. Does it just seem like there is a big difference when in reality it's all the same or is there an actual difference? 

I think Deebo being hurt the past 3 games has skewed that quite a bit...

[757-NINER]

1 hour ago, Forge said:

Lance has played as much as Purdy. You know what I think the difference is? Lance isn't winning. I think if he had won, people would have been much more effusive. 

Lance hasn't played extended games in a row though. A game sprinkled between long periods of inactivity isn't really a good enough sample size imo.

Their advanced stats aren't really that far off. Like you said Purdy has won and that's the biggest difference.

I think the fact Lance hasn't 'wowed', with what was given up to acquire him, will always leave a sour taste in ALOT of fans and pundits mouths. It really isn't fair given just how raw of a prospect he was and how he needed to have a 'trail by error' type of development. But it's a results based business so that's what the majority will judge you by, at the end of the day. 

 

 

[NFL Network]

3 hours ago, 757-NINER said:

Lance hasn't played extended games in a row though. A game sprinkled between long periods of inactivity isn't really a good enough sample size imo.

Their advanced stats aren't really that far off. Like you said Purdy has won and that's the biggest difference.

I think the fact Lance hasn't 'wowed', with what was given up to acquire him, will always leave a sour taste in ALOT of fans and pundits mouths. It really isn't fair given just how raw of a prospect he was and how he needed to have a 'trail by error' type of development. But it's a results based business so that's what the majority will judge you by, at the end of the day. 

 

 

I don't know if Lance can make some of those throws that Purdy has made since he debuted. Even that 4th & 3 conversion to Kittle in the 4th quarter yesterday I don't think Lance can stand in the pocket and make those throws. The only thing Lance has is that he's a threat of a runner and that's basically his be all to end all as without the threat of the run Lance can't do much of anything with his arm.

[757-NINER]

1 hour ago, NFL Network said:

I don't know if Lance can make some of those throws that Purdy has made since he debuted. Even that 4th & 3 conversion to Kittle in the 4th quarter yesterday I don't think Lance can stand in the pocket and make those throws. The only thing Lance has is that he's a threat of a runner and that's basically his be all to end all as without the threat of the run Lance can't do much of anything with his arm.

Lance has made EVERY throw that Purdy has made thus far. The tape is there. 

Even the post route to Kittle. Lance made a simlar throw against the Texans I believe. 

It's the processing and understanding where to go with the ball pre-snap where Lance is behind. Purdy's able to play on-schedule and in rhythm. That's where Lance really lags behind at the moment.

But that should be expected.

Purdy played fours years of P5 football. Even as a rookie, he's more advanced from the pocket and has seen more from a defensive standpoint than Lance. He's been put in more adverse/high stakes situations so his response isn't all that surprising to me. His football IQ is better than I expected and even surpasses Jimmy. But if you watched him college, you could see the intangibles were there. That's why I said initially I didn't see a big dropoff from him, compared to Jimmy. 

 

[Forge]

1 hour ago, NFL Network said:

I don't know if Lance can make some of those throws that Purdy has made since he debuted. Even that 4th & 3 conversion to Kittle in the 4th quarter yesterday I don't think Lance can stand in the pocket and make those throws. The only thing Lance has is that he's a threat of a runner and that's basically his be all to end all as without the threat of the run Lance can't do much of anything with his arm.

Interesting post. Mostly makes me think you haven't watched much of Lance starting though. 

[NFL Network]

7 minutes ago, Forge said:

Interesting post. Mostly makes me think you haven't watched a game with Lance starting though. 

That's the thing I've only seen 4 games of Lance starting lol! And during those 4 games I saw a QB who struggled to throw and he also had many over throws early in the Bears game and the offense was completely stagnant for the most part.