HerbertGOAT Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 18 minutes ago, biggie. said: Herbert continues to be the most overrated QB in the league. Based off of what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 (edited) 38 minutes ago, biggie. said: Herbert continues to be the most overrated QB in the league. He’s pretty good. I don’t love his release and I think his targets help. I think that Lawrence will prove to be a better version of Herbert next year. But I think Herbert has shown enough to say he’ll likely be a fringe top 5 QB for a while. Edited December 22, 2022 by sammymvpknight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 T1 - Mahomes T2 - Hurts, Allen, Burrow, Herbert T3 - Lamar, Tua, Rodgers, Brady, Cousins But considering this is for NEXT YEAR, I'll probably drop Brady and/or Rodgers for Dak or maybe Lawrence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizeGuy Posted December 22, 2022 Author Share Posted December 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, Soggust said: T1 - Mahomes T2 - Hurts, Allen, Burrow, Herbert T3 - Lamar, Tua, Rodgers, Brady, Cousins But considering this is for NEXT YEAR, I'll probably drop Brady and/or Rodgers for Dak or maybe Lawrence I wouldn't put Mahomes in his own tier. Allen is right there, too. Their stats are close this year. Both lack weapons outside of their #1 target, though Davis finally showed some life again against Miami. Mahomes has a better offensive minded coach and a (apparently) much better O line. I'll give Allen the edge in weapons. It's crazy to see where Burrow's line is at. If this is an accurate reflection of O line play, which I do have my doubts given it's PFF- then Burrow has elite weapons and a strong offensive line. Must be nice, haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BILLievers Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Soggust said: T1 - Mahomes T2 - Hurts, Allen, Burrow, Herbert T3 - Lamar, Tua, Rodgers, Brady, Cousins But considering this is for NEXT YEAR, I'll probably drop Brady and/or Rodgers for Dak or maybe Lawrence You can't say Mahomes is in a tier of his own but then group Josh Allen in the tier with Hurts, Herbert, and Burrow lol. If Hurts/Herbert = Allen then I can easily make the argument Mahomes = Allen by that criteria. It's either T1- Mahomes T2- Allen and maybe Burrow T3 - Hurts, Herbert or T1 - Mahomes, Allen then T2 - Hurts, Herbert, Burrow. Edited December 22, 2022 by The BILLievers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, The BILLievers said: You can't say Mahomes is in a tier of his own but then group Josh Allen in the tier with Hurts, Herbert, and Burrow lol. If Hurts/Herbert = Allen then I can easily make the argument Mahomes = Allen by that criteria. It's either T1- Mahomes T2- Allen and maybe Burrow T3 - Hurts, Herbert or T1 - Mahomes, Allen then T2 - Hurts, Herbert, Burrow. Why? Mahomes is clearly the best QB statistically in football this year, so far. He's also been in the discussion every year he's been a starter. We can't say that about Allen or Burrow or Herbert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, WizeGuy said: I wouldn't put Mahomes in his own tier. Allen is right there, too. Their stats are close this year. Both lack weapons outside of their #1 target, though Davis finally showed some life again against Miami. Mahomes has a better offensive minded coach and a (apparently) much better O line. I'll give Allen the edge in weapons. It's crazy to see where Burrow's line is at. If this is an accurate reflection of O line play, which I do have my doubts given it's PFF- then Burrow has elite weapons and a strong offensive line. Must be nice, haha. Mahomes has ~300 more yards, 2 more TDs, 5 less turnovers and 8 points higher rating. I mean they are close in the sense that it's closer than like Baker Mayfield vs Mahomes, but are they really that close when splitting hairs in an MVP discussion? edit - sorry forgot what thread i was responding to lol. this is not MVP discussion you idiot soggust, this is top 10 going into 2023, which makes me think even more that Mahomes deserves his own tier because of his consistency in being in the MVP discussion year to year. Edited December 22, 2022 by Soggust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 Mahomes Allen Hurts Herbert Dak Lamar Lawrence Burrow Goff Tua Wildcards here include: Geno Smith - Prime candidate for regression back to the mean especially if he takes a huge FA contract for a different team than Seattle. Matthew Stafford - A healthy Stafford in 2023 with a healthy Rams team could easily be a top 10 QB Justin Fields - If he improves as a passer he could be a top 10 QB. Deshaun Watson - Who knows where he's gonna rank. Rodgers + Brady - They both look rather washed this year so with another year on the decline, who knows The league as a whole at QB looks pretty mediocre after the first like 7 guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BILLievers Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Soggust said: Why? Mahomes is clearly the best QB statistically in football this year, so far. He's also been in the discussion every year he's been a starter. We can't say that about Allen or Burrow or Herbert. Because statistically Allen is way closer to Mahomes then Hurts/Herbert/Burrow is to Allen. So Allen needs to either be in Mahomes' tier or in a tier of his own. 2020 + 2021 + 2022 projected stats (past 3 seasons) Josh Allen 15,675 total yards 132 touchdowns Patrick Mahomes 16,040 total yards 125 touchdowns So Mahomes has Allen by 400 total yards over a course of (3) seasons and Allen has Mahomes by 7 TDs over (3) seasons. Pretty identical. 2022 projected stats Josh Allen 5539 total yards 44 TDs Patrick Mahomes 5832 total yards 46 TDs And for all we know Allen could outpace him the rest of the season and beat him in TDs. But I don't think 2 touchdowns and 300 total yards gets Mahomes into his own tier especially when you look at the last 3 years which gives you a good baseline. Or at least have Allen in a tier above Hurts/Herbert lol. If Hurts = same tier as Allen then Allen = same tier as Mahomes easily. Edited December 22, 2022 by The BILLievers 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, The BILLievers said: Because statistically Allen is way closer to Mahomes then Hurts/Herbert/Burrow is to Allen. So Allen needs to either be in Mahomes' tier or in a tier of his own. 2020 + 2021 + 2022 projected stats (past 3 seasons) Josh Allen 15,675 total yards 132 touchdowns Patrick Mahomes 16,040 total yards 125 touchdowns So Mahomes has Allen by 400 total yards over a course of (3) seasons and Allen has Mahomes by 7 TDs over (3) seasons. Pretty identical. 2022 projected stats Josh Allen 5539 total yards 44 TDs Patrick Mahomes 5832 total yards 46 TDs And for all we know Allen could outpace him the rest of the season and beat him in TDs. But I don't think 2 touchdowns and 300 total yards gets Mahomes into his own tier especially when you look at the last 3 years which gives you a good baseline. Allen also has 6 more INTs and 10 more fumbles over that period (has lost 8 more than Mahomes). Mahomes also has a higher completion % and a 5 point better passer rating (at a higher ANY/A). So basically, what I'm hearing is that Mahomes has better stats over the last three years, in addition to this year. To me it's the same argument we always have with Allen/Mahomes. One player has an argument for being better, and the other has an argument for possibly being in the discussion. To me, that in itself is telling that there is a gap between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BILLievers Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 8 minutes ago, Soggust said: Allen also has 6 more INTs and 10 more fumbles over that period (has lost 8 more than Mahomes). Mahomes also has a higher completion % and a 5 point better passer rating (at a higher ANY/A). So basically, what I'm hearing is that Mahomes has better stats over the last three years, in addition to this year. To me it's the same argument we always have with Allen/Mahomes. One player has an argument for being better, and the other has an argument for possibly being in the discussion. To me, that in itself is telling that there is a gap between the two. If there is a gap it's minimal and the super bowl Mahomes has helps his case. My point of the whole thing was there is no way Allen is in the same tier as Hurts. If Mahomes is a tier above Allen, then Allen is a tier above the others. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Soggust said: Why? Mahomes is clearly the best QB statistically in football this year, so far. He's also been in the discussion every year he's been a starter. We can't say that about Allen or Burrow or Herbert. I mean, if it were me. I would put Mahomes and Allen in a tier together above everyone else. I just see them as far and away the two best QBs in football at this point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 I love Allen. For fantasy, clearly dude is a monster. But my concern with projecting him further out is health. He treats himself like a fullback. There’s no way that it’d gamble on his health over Mahomes. I have Mahomes and Allen on the same tier because I’m willing to bet on Allen a little longer, but 5-10 years from now? I’m definitely going with Mahomes. It’s also why I’m a little lower on Hurts and Jackson than most. They should all probably be fine for 2023 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 41 minutes ago, The BILLievers said: If there is a gap it's minimal and the super bowl Mahomes has helps his case. My point of the whole thing was there is no way Allen is in the same tier as Hurts. If Mahomes is a tier above Allen, then Allen is a tier above the others. For me, I think I took it as confidence in being a top tier QB in 2023. So let's just assume (for argument's sake) that Mahomes is a tier above on this list. The biggest issue with Allen is consistency. His peaks are best QB in the league level play, but then I think, so are Burrows. I don't think it's crazy to lump them together in the next tier after Mahomes. The real question, imo, is do Herbert and Hurts deserve to be on a tier with Burrow/Allen going into 2023? I can accept I might be wrong on this one an maybe there is another tier between these and the guys below, but Hurts is arguably on his way to an MVP season. Did he have a meh rookie year? Sure. But so did Burrow and certainly so did Allen. So the question then is, has he done it long enough to prove it? And to that, I feel like he's in the same spot Burrow was coming into this season (reasonable top 5, but needed more length). So maybe he shouldn't be QUITE yet in hindsight, but I do think he's close. I think I put Herbert there out of habit, but after relooking at his 2022 stats, I don't think I like him in the Burrow/Allen tier. So fair enough. We might disagree on Mahomes, but I do think in hindsight maybe Burrow/Allen in their own tier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 37 minutes ago, lavar703 said: I mean, if it were me. I would put Mahomes and Allen in a tier together above everyone else. I just see them as far and away the two best QBs in football at this point. What separates Allen and Burrow for you, just curious? You just feel like Burrow is more product of the system and Allen is more the system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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