HerbertGOAT Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 4 hours ago, Soggust said: This is a fair point, but Cousins also put up like 5k yards in Washington with trash too, right? Yeah, but that was 6 years ago. Not really relevant when we're talking about QBs going into 2023. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFlyZone Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 23 minutes ago, HerbertGOAT said: Yeah, but that was 6 years ago. Not really relevant when we're talking about QBs going into 2023. I mean… are you going to claim that he is a worse QB than he was then? Nothing points to that. Kirk easily deserves his due. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 24 minutes ago, HerbertGOAT said: Yeah, but that was 6 years ago. Not really relevant when we're talking about QBs going into 2023. I mean if the idea is that he needs help to produce it is. If the idea is "TL has been better than Cousins in 2022 with worse weapons", I think that's probably a fair take. I will say that I would take Doug P over any head coaches for MIN, but I think it's fair to say TL has had worse support, generally (even excluding 2021). But Kirk's essentially produced this line for 8 years now, so I think I value that consistency over a guy who has only done it for a season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizeGuy Posted December 23, 2022 Author Share Posted December 23, 2022 (edited) 23 hours ago, sammymvpknight said: I love Allen. For fantasy, clearly dude is a monster. But my concern with projecting him further out is health. He treats himself like a fullback. There’s no way that it’d gamble on his health over Mahomes. I have Mahomes and Allen on the same tier because I’m willing to bet on Allen a little longer, but 5-10 years from now? I’m definitely going with Mahomes. It’s also why I’m a little lower on Hurts and Jackson than most. They should all probably be fine for 2023 though. I can't argue with this. I too think Mahomes will have a better career due partially to the way Allen plays. As long as they're both playing at their peak, though- they're pretty close. I have Mahomes slightly ahead because he's a bit more consistent and doesn't fumble as much, but both of them are able to dismantle a defense unlike any other QB in the league although Burrow is someone I'm keeping an eye on because he's looking GOOD, too. Edited December 23, 2022 by WizeGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbertGOAT Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 12 hours ago, NoFlyZone said: I mean… are you going to claim that he is a worse QB than he was then? Nothing points to that. Kirk easily deserves his due. 12 hours ago, Soggust said: I mean if the idea is that he needs help to produce it is. If the idea is "TL has been better than Cousins in 2022 with worse weapons", I think that's probably a fair take. I will say that I would take Doug P over any head coaches for MIN, but I think it's fair to say TL has had worse support, generally (even excluding 2021). But Kirk's essentially produced this line for 8 years now, so I think I value that consistency over a guy who has only done it for a season. I get it, but projection has to come into play at some point. Kirk is not going to be much better than this. Lawrence is at least around Kirk's level right now, and he's evidently ascending. I get arguments for both but IMO Lawrence can be a top 5 QB, and can reach that next season. Kirk won't ever be more than a 7-12 guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizeGuy Posted December 24, 2022 Author Share Posted December 24, 2022 (edited) 22 hours ago, WizeGuy said: I can't argue with this. I too think Mahomes will have a better career due partially to the way Allen plays. As long as they're both playing at their peak, though- they're pretty close. I have Mahomes slightly ahead because he's a bit more consistent and doesn't fumble as much, but both of them are able to dismantle a defense unlike any other QB in the league although Burrow is someone I'm keeping an eye on because he's looking GOOD, too. Piggy backing off of this post; Mahomes and Allen are extremely close this year. They were extremely close in 2020 in which Allen had a slightly better year. Mahomes was better in 2021. In fact- the only QB I think you could have argued to have been in their own tier the past few seasons is Rodgers up until this year. Back-to-back MVPs, and 2020 was a crazy year for him. Allen, Brady, Mahomes were all pretty similar up until this year. Now Allen and Mahomes have continued their reign with Burrow starting to creep up on them. I just cant put Mahomes in god tier. He's the best QB in the league, imo, but Allen and Burrow arent far behind. This is interesting: Allen just needs to reel in his fumbling, and I think theyre even. I also think it's disingenuous for the chart to ignore that, so there's some definite bias in this chart, but still some interesting tidbits of information. The AFC is so stacked at QB. Damn! Edited December 24, 2022 by WizeGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmart128 Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 1 hour ago, WizeGuy said: Piggy backing off of this post; Mahomes and Allen are extremely close this year. They were extremely close in 2020 in which Allen had a slightly better year. Mahomes was better in 2021. In fact- the only QB I think you could have argued to have been in their own tier the past few seasons is Rodgers up until this year. Back-to-back MVPs, and 2020 was a crazy year for him. Allen, Brady, Mahomes were all pretty similar up until this year. Now Allen and Mahomes have continued their reign with Burrow starting to creep up on them. I just cant put Mahomes in god tier. He's the best QB in the league, imo, but Allen and Burrow arent far behind. This is interesting: Allen just needs to reel in his fumbling, and I think theyre even. I also think it's disingenuous for the chart to ignore that, so there's some definite bias in this chart, but still some interesting tidbits of information. The AFC is so stacked at QB. Damn! I think many of his fumbling issues and the drops by WRs have to do with the weather games he has played in. With the rain and snow obviously the ball slips out way easier. And with wind it makes it very hard to throw accurate passes so he is running way more which leads to more fumbles. Seems like every game we play is impacted by weather in some way. Even when we moved our game to play in Detroit we didnt even get an practice time due to illnesses and the weather... Im just glad we have been able to weather the storm... lame pun intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 11 hours ago, WizeGuy said: They were extremely close in 2020 in which Allen had a slightly better year. Mahomes: 15 games, 4,740 pass yards, 38 pass TDs, 6 INT, 308 rush yards, 2 rush TDs, 5 fumbles, 108.2 passer rating, 8.1 YPA, 8.9 AY/A, 8.33 ANY/A. Allen: 16 games, 4,544 pass yards, 37 pass TDs, 10 INT, 421 rush yards, 8 rush TDs, 10 fumbles, 107.2 passer rating, 7.9 YPA, 8.5 AY/A, 7.22 ANY/A. Where was Allen better outside of rushing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said: Mahomes: 15 games, 4,740 pass yards, 38 pass TDs, 6 INT, 308 rush yards, 2 rush TDs, 5 fumbles, 108.2 passer rating, 8.1 YPA, 8.9 AY/A, 8.33 ANY/A. Allen: 16 games, 4,544 pass yards, 37 pass TDs, 10 INT, 421 rush yards, 8 rush TDs, 10 fumbles, 107.2 passer rating, 7.9 YPA, 8.5 AY/A, 7.22 ANY/A. Where was Allen better outside of rushing? Am I the only one who knows how to do this? Passing Advanced Passing Rk Player Year QBrec Att Cmp% Y/A+ NY/A+ AY/A+ ANY/A+ Cmp%+ TD%+ Int%+ Sack%+ Rate+ 1 Josh Allen 2020 13-3-0 572 69.2 116 120 119 121 120 119 110 115 121 2 Patrick Mahomes 2020 14-1-0 588 66.3 118 124 125 128 108 119 124 121 122 Looks like Mahomes is better in all categories besides cmp%+ but they're pretty close in just about every passing stat. Add in Allen's rushing production and I would say that might put him over the edge? idk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Am I the only one who knows how to do this? Passing Advanced Passing Rk Player Year QBrec Att Cmp% Y/A+ NY/A+ AY/A+ ANY/A+ Cmp%+ TD%+ Int%+ Sack%+ Rate+ 1 Josh Allen 2020 13-3-0 572 69.2 116 120 119 121 120 119 110 115 121 2 Patrick Mahomes 2020 14-1-0 588 66.3 118 124 125 128 108 119 124 121 122 Looks like Mahomes is better in all categories besides cmp%+ but they're pretty close in just about every passing stat. Add in Allen's rushing production and I would say that might put him over the edge? idk. I’m on my phone, it reads ugly on mobile. Mahomes has the edge in passing, Allen has the edge in rushing. Allen put the ball in the end zone more with rush TDs (which is largely opportunity based if we’re being honest, 7/8 of those were inside the 5), but he also put that ball on the ground twice as much (10 fumbles). Not really seeing where Allen takes the lead there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbertGOAT Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 13 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Am I the only one who knows how to do this? Passing Advanced Passing Rk Player Year QBrec Att Cmp% Y/A+ NY/A+ AY/A+ ANY/A+ Cmp%+ TD%+ Int%+ Sack%+ Rate+ 1 Josh Allen 2020 13-3-0 572 69.2 116 120 119 121 120 119 110 115 121 2 Patrick Mahomes 2020 14-1-0 588 66.3 118 124 125 128 108 119 124 121 122 Looks like Mahomes is better in all categories besides cmp%+ but they're pretty close in just about every passing stat. Add in Allen's rushing production and I would say that might put him over the edge? idk. PFR really needs to advertise this feature better. With rates being more important than raw numbers, as well as raw numbers being impossible to compare across different eras, the Advanced Passing stats are brilliant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbertGOAT Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 (edited) On 12/21/2022 at 8:06 AM, HerbertGOAT said: 1) Mahomes 2) Burrow 3) Allen 4) Herbert 5) Hurts 6) Lamar 7) Rodgers 8 ) Lawrence 9) Brady 10) Tua 1) Mahomes 2) Burrow 3) Herbert 4) Allen 5) Lamar 6) Hurts 7) Rodgers 8 ) Lawrence 9) Brady 10) Cousins lol Edited December 25, 2022 by HerbertGOAT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbuff Posted December 26, 2022 Share Posted December 26, 2022 Mahomes is on his own tier, Allen is on his own tier below Mahomes’s tier. Josh had a bad 6 quarters against the Packers and Jets then sprained his throwing elbow. He’s also played in the ****tiest throwing conditions of any QB in the league this year, and is still near the top of the league in most standard and advanced stats. Mahomes Allen Burrow/Herbert/Hurts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted December 26, 2022 Share Posted December 26, 2022 18 hours ago, HerbertGOAT said: 1) Mahomes 2) Burrow 3) Herbert 4) Allen 5) Lamar 6) Hurts 7) Rodgers 8 ) Lawrence 9) Brady 10) Cousins lol lol at Lamar being top five. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbertGOAT Posted December 26, 2022 Share Posted December 26, 2022 49 minutes ago, DawgX said: lol at Lamar being top five. Ravens PPG with Lamar (games that he started and finished): 25 (tied for 8th in the league) Ravens PPG without Lamar: 11.5 (would be 8th worst out of all teams in the 16-game season era) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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