Elgton Jenkins Gets Paid (4 years, $68M)

[CWood21]

6 minutes ago, squire12 said:

Alexander has $11.45M of his roster bonus due on the 3rd day of the 2023 league year.  That likely gets converted to SB.  So not guaranteed at signing, but essentially a guaranteed amount as it would cost GB more to cut him.

That's the structure I'm interested in seeing

Not sure that's a similar comparison given that Jaire Alexander was playing on his 5th year option when he signed that extension.  And that was part of him lowering his 2023 cap hit.  And I think when we talk about guarantees we don't discuss actual guarantees vs effective guarantees.  Actual guarantees include money that the player will get no matter what, while effective guarantees are money that players are almost certainly going to get because of cap structures.  The only guarantees that Jaire Alexander got was his $30M signing bonus, but his 2023 salary and 2023 roster bonus are effectively guaranteed so I'd argue his effective guarantees are actually closer to $43.3M.

[coachbuns]

6 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Not sure that's a similar comparison given that Jaire Alexander was playing on his 5th year option when he signed that extension.  And that was part of him lowering his 2023 cap hit.  And I think when we talk about guarantees we don't discuss actual guarantees vs effective guarantees.  Actual guarantees include money that the player will get no matter what, while effective guarantees are money that players are almost certainly going to get because of cap structures.  The only guarantees that Jaire Alexander got was his $30M signing bonus, but his 2023 salary and 2023 roster bonus are effectively guaranteed so I'd argue his effective guarantees are actually closer to $43.3M.

All good info.  That being said, I'm not sure the actual vs effective guarantees aren't darn near the same.  Any money a player will get no matter what vs money they almost certainly going to get .. not much difference.  Regardless, Alexander is going to be on this team with a boat load of cap dollars whether it's actual or effective.

[svp]

Can they crowdfund some of these contracts?

[incognito_man]

1 hour ago, svp said:

Can they crowdfund some of these contracts?

Interesting question. 

What is preventing fans from organizing to offer money to players on the side to come join their favorite team?

[HokieHigh]

13 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Interesting question. 

What is preventing fans from organizing to offer money to players on the side to come join their favorite team?

Now we are talking

[Old Guy]

12 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Interesting question. 

What is preventing fans from organizing to offer money to players on the side to come join their favorite team?

Sort of like NIL money in college sports now? Interesting idea. I would assume local businesses offering guys endorsement deals are sort of the same idea. Of course, local endorsements don't pay as much as national deals. 

Wonder how much Brady and Gesele made on crypto? 

[CWood21]

3 hours ago, coachbuns said:

All good info.  That being said, I'm not sure the actual vs effective guarantees aren't darn near the same.  Any money a player will get no matter what vs money they almost certainly going to get .. not much difference.  Regardless, Alexander is going to be on this team with a boat load of cap dollars whether it's actual or effective.

You look more at when they're able to get out of.  For example, you don't save money with Jaire Alexander until after the 2023 season.  If/When they restructure Jaire Aleanders '23 roster bonus into a signing bonus, it actually costs them more to cut him than it does to keep him around.

[squire12]

48 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Interesting question. 

What is preventing fans from organizing to offer money to players on the side to come join their favorite team?

Like endorsement deals

[Mr Bad Example]

1 hour ago, incognito_man said:

Interesting question. 

What is preventing fans from organizing to offer money to players on the side to come join their favorite team?

I would expect nothing, but the problem is much less cash flow and more bumping up against the salary cap....but if it isn't the organisation paying the money, does it apply? I'd think no? 

[Zycho32]

55 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Interesting question. 

What is preventing fans from organizing to offer money to players on the side to come join their favorite team?

I would imagine there's something in the by-laws to prohibit third-party influencers from instigating that sort of thing, complete with an inch-thick cluster of amendment clauses which essentially permit select 'entities' to operate as a third-party, so long as a substantial kick-back is delivered to the NFL as a cost of doing business directly to the players.

But assuming that not only am I talking out of the wrong hole but I am also completely wrong, the biggest obstacle would be scarcity of available funds. Ever heard of the Detroit Wheels? Back in the days of the World Football League, a collection of Middle-Rich people, about 32 in all, teamed up to 'finance' the Wheels... only for the whole bunch to develop Kitty Genovese syndrome and balk at signing any checks, and the team made history with how cash strapped they were before they had to fold. A Go Fund Me for even a single player would come under the same fickleness.

[coachbuns]

9 hours ago, CWood21 said:

You look more at when they're able to get out of.  For example, you don't save money with Jaire Alexander until after the 2023 season.  If/When they restructure Jaire Aleanders '23 roster bonus into a signing bonus, it actually costs them more to cut him than it does to keep him around.

No brainer .. you keep him.

[vegas492]

On 12/24/2022 at 11:20 AM, Packerraymond said:

Pay elite players, doesn't matter where they play. It's the "good" players at the non-premiums you let test the market, as your odds in the draft of replacing a good level player are solid, they're slim as an elite player.

Apologies for cherry picking your post, which was a very good one.

This whole idea of paying "good money" to "non-premium"...that's a real thing.  I said it after our draft and I'll say it again, I loved how we drafted offensive linemen.

But taking that many swings at a 5 position line, you more or less insulate yourself from "having" to "over pay" for an average to okay non-premium player.

At the time, I put Runyan into that category.  Today I'm not sure if he isn't better than "okay" and has maybe gone up to "decent".  But that point is the same, when you draft and develop, you aren't held hostage and overpaying for talent that is not elite.

Which is why you pay Bakh for as long as he can play, medically.  And for as long as you feel that you are a contender.  He's still elite.

Which is why you pay Jenkins.  Dude is an elite guard.  And versatile enough to flip out to tackle.  I think I'm on the record somewhere saying that RT would be his worst position on the line.  And that happened.  Doesn't mean he still isn't valuable because of his ability to flip out there and get you out of a game.

And yah just cannot argue against the fact that once he went to LG, the line solidified.  Bakh and Tom have split LT duties....and the line is the same.  

But when a guy like Runyan comes up?  Yah gotta really think about that deal.  Nijman too.  You draft the Rhyan's and Walker's so that you can decide whether a new deal for Runyan and Nijman are worth it....when it is that time.

[vegas492]

On 12/24/2022 at 1:17 PM, Old Guy said:

I never said this either you are trying, unsuccessfully, to put words in my mouth. 

You can, and we have, found good interior offensive linemen by letting guys walk. Corey Linsley 2 years ago. He was considered to be in the top 2 or 3 centers in the league. We not only survived last year, but we also thrived. 

Yah, you used an awful example.

Why do you think Aaron Jones hasn't busted a long run for a TD since Linsley left?

We have had probably the biggest drop off on the line, in about the last 10 years of me watching the o-line, when we went from the great veteran Linsley to the rookie Myers.

The line did not "thrive".  Our run game has not "thrived".  We won some games, sure.  But we took a hit on the o-line. 

Linsley working with Bakh and Jenkins on that left side was an absolute thing of beauty.

We did the right thing by not offering him that huge 3rd contract.  But let's not think that Myers is playing at anywhere close to that level that Linsley did.

[Old Guy]

4 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Yah, you used an awful example.

Why do you think Aaron Jones hasn't busted a long run for a TD since Linsley left?

We have had probably the biggest drop off on the line, in about the last 10 years of me watching the o-line, when we went from the great veteran Linsley to the rookie Myers.

The line did not "thrive".  Our run game has not "thrived".  We won some games, sure.  But we took a hit on the o-line. 

Linsley working with Bakh and Jenkins on that left side was an absolute thing of beauty.

We did the right thing by not offering him that huge 3rd contract.  But let's not think that Myers is playing at anywhere close to that level that Linsley did.

We averaged 4.3 yards per attempt last year. We were without Bakh all year and Jenkins for a good part of the year, but it was the centers fault. The line had been a **** show early in the year this year as well and Jenkins was a big part of that problem until he went to LG. 

Also, Jones had a 57-yard run last year and a 37-yard run this year. Unless you are trying to say Linsley was downfield 40-60 yards freeing him up for longer runs your statement is inaccurate. 

One could make a case that our running game hasn't been as good this year because of our passing game taking a major step backwards. Teams had been able to load the box to stop the running game. Jones has been dealing with injuries the last three or four games as well. 

 

[vegas492]

17 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

We averaged 4.3 yards per attempt last year. We were without Bakh all year and Jenkins for a good part of the year, but it was the centers fault. The line had been a **** show early in the year this year as well and Jenkins was a big part of that problem until he went to LG. 

Also, Jones had a 57-yard run last year and a 37-yard run this year. Unless you are trying to say Linsley was downfield 40-60 yards freeing him up for longer runs your statement is inaccurate. 

One could make a case that our running game hasn't been as good this year because of our passing game taking a major step backwards. Teams had been able to load the box to stop the running game. Jones has been dealing with injuries the last three or four games as well. 

 

If you look at the long runs generated with Linsley versus without Linsley, it is staggering.

Now, in all fairness, I cannot take full credit for knowing this off the top of my head.  @AlexGreen#20 gave a delicious summary of it last year.  And it resonated with me.

You want to know why Jones has not sprung a long for a TD in a year and half?  Simply look at the center play.  (In no way did I say that Jones hasn't sprung a long one or a good one, I however added, for a TD)  

So again, let's not confuse Myers play at center with what Linsely did over time.  It is night and day different.  Myers may have a good game here and there, but Linsley was amazing and consistent.  Myers is still developing.

Linsley PFF.  2014.  76.7 (6th)  2015.  79.3 (3rd)  2016 76.4 (12th)  2017 67.7 (17th)  2018 78.6 (6th)  2019 73.9 (7th)  2020 86.4 (1st)  2021 85.7 (2nd)  2022 68.6 (12th)

Myers PFF.  2021 54.9 (33rd)  2022 61.4 (24th)

I'll end with this.  I do not disagree with many of your statements.  But the one about Linsley is about as poor of an example as you could have used.