Head coaching candidates thread

[AnAngryAmerican]

I was driving during the presser and listening to it on The Fan, here are my thoughts. 

-As I said, it was painful. Penner has no clue what he is doing, he's in as far over his head as the coach he just fired was. 

-George is in a lose-lose situation with the media; he took what I thought was professional accountability, saying the mess is all on him and he told the players exactly that yesterday. Then the radio guys blast him for saying that and, as has become accustomed on The Fan, they're complaining that he wasn't fired. My take was after listening to Greg Penner, I sure don't want him making a GM hire. 

-Penner said the new HC will report directly to him, stating that is the typical structure of a NFL operation. I can think of only a few coaches who out-rank or are on equal footing with their GM and they're all (except Mac) established winners - Belichick, Tomlin, Reid, Harbaugh, Carroll, Shanahan, Pederson, Rivera and McDaniels. Even McVay reports to Snead, who in turn reports to Kroenke. 

-Penner again reiterated he will lead the search along with Carrie and that Dr. Rice will be involved, citing her recent experience on the Stanford coaching search that followed Shaw's retirement. George will also be part of the search group but it is clear the final decision will be made by the Walmarts. 

-George and Greg both said that prior HC experience will not be a prerequisite; Klis has been saying since yesterday (don't know if he's changed his tune in the last 30 minutes) that he expects a prior HC to get the job and listed Payton, Harbaugh, Reich and Quinn. One of those (Payton) isn't happening, Harbaugh I would love and the other two I would hate. 

-As BF said, Evero is someone they want to interview. I'd wager he is a long shot given his limited experience and his ties to the losing culture here over the last few months. He also, as Hackett's best friend, is likely to be somewhat similar. I like Evero a lot and believe he will be a fine HC someday, I just don't think it will be here or next year. 

-George says Russ is fixable and they're committed to him for the long-term, blowing the (very slim even before he said that) chance we take the hit and move on. 

-Penner said the many considerations will be leadership qualities and building a culture. That was vague and perfunctory and I provides next to no insight. 

-All in all, I think this is the lowest the franchise has been, and yes that includes during the dark days of Mac, Vance and Vic and no ownership. I had little faith in the Walmarts before today and even less today. I think this franchise is heading for obscurity and a mediocre, retread hire like Dan Quinn or Frank Reich isn't going to change things. With the Maholmes and Reid in KC and Payton likely going to L.A. to team up with Herbert, we're looking at a future of battling the McRaiders for third place in the AFCW. Sad day. 

 

[champ11]

Don't get me wrong, I love the billionaire wal-mart slander. But I am confused why they are taking the brunt of all of the ire when it was Paton that put us in this situation @AnAngryAmerican

 

In general if Paton is a dead man walking, that's a terrible way to run an org. I don't think he should be fired and they need to continue to empower him but must be said he is obviously going to be on a shorter leash. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

12 minutes ago, champ11 said:

Don't get me wrong, I love the billionaire wal-mart slander. But I am confused why they are taking the brunt of all of the ire when it was Paton that put us in this situation @AnAngryAmerican

In general if Paton is a dead man walking, that's a terrible way to run an org. I don't think he should be fired and they need to continue to empower him but must be said he is obviously going to be on a shorter leash. 

I've said it many times, George has made some mistakes - the Sutton contract coming off his injury, the signing of the constantly injured Randy Gregory, allowing Hackett to hire what was essentially a rookie staff and not retaining Munchak in even a consulting role, even taking PS2 over Fields in 2021 - for which the criticism leveled at him is fair. I would even say, as I did at the time, that keeping Vic and signing Teddy last year were mistakes (though understandable given the ownership situation). 

However, I do not think that the Russ trade or the subsequent extension were bad moves at the time they were made. I also can totally see the appeal of Hackett as an up-and-coming HC candidate, especially after Vic. No, we didn't hire Hackett just to get Rodgers, despite the narrative now. There is SO MUCH Monday Morning QBing going on right now it makes me sick. The talking heads are criticizing George now for moves they themselves were lauding at the time. 

The Walmarts are taking the "slander" because they're not football people and now they're going to be making football decisions; that's every fan's worst nightmare. That presser this morning was as embarrassing as the season has been. Last time we had a non-football person make a major football decision was when Joe Ellis fired Mike Shanahan and hired Josh McDaniels. How'd that work out? And at least Ellis had worked for a football team for 15 years, even if it was exclusive to the business side of the organization. The Walmarts have five months of football experience.

Al Davis was a decent coach. Jerry Jones played on a D-1 national championship team. 

The Walmarts are Dan Snyder without the criminal record. 

[AKRNA]

3 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Great post Germ. 

Here’s the thing, you say they “can’t” just cut Wilson. They very much can. Just take it on the chin write off 2023. They won’t. But it’s not that they can’t cut him. 

 

@BroncoBruin was the first guy to mention this. Right now you have to consider every option and that has to be on the table.

A clean slate in 2024, lots of cap room, a full compliment of high draft choices, a solid defense and a rebuilt, strong FO with deep pockets and no primadonna QB would be very attractive to a HC candidate. 

Compare that to what we've got to offer now. Pretty much a guarantee of failure and on the street in a year or two.

[AnAngryAmerican]

2 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

@BroncoBruin was the first guy to mention this. Right now you have to consider every option and that has to be on the table.

A clean slate in 2024, lots of cap room, a full compliment of high draft choices, a solid defense and a rebuilt, strong FO with deep pockets and no primadonna QB would be very attractive to a HC candidate. 

Compare that to what we've got to offer now. Pretty much a guarantee of failure and on the street in a year or two.

Yep. The same point I've been making. 

Yet, the idea was shot to hell this morning in the George/Mr. Walmart press conference where they said Russ is fixable and they are committed to him long-term. 

As I said, they're going to probably hire the Quinn/Schottenheimer pairing and try to sell the fan base on how an improved "culture" (one of the buzzwords from this morning's cringeworthy press conference) and some good luck on the injury front will make next year different. They'll get KOA and Klis and MHR and the other usual suspects to parrot the "if we averaged 18 PPG in 2022 we'd have made the playoffs" line and hope that will sell enough tickets to cover their $100m investment in a new jumbotron and upgrades to the luxury suites to schmooze their corporate partners.

2023 could be a wasted season by biting the bullet on the Russ contract. Instead, 2023 and 2024 will be wasted seasons and we will be right back here in January 2025. 

[Scoundrel]

They really should just cut Wilson we will accept the burn and loss as fans of the franchise if we can see the brighter days are ahead. Stop trying to stay on board a sinking ship. 

[AKRNA]

45 minutes ago, champ11 said:

Don't get me wrong, I love the billionaire wal-mart slander. But I am confused why they are taking the brunt of all of the ire when it was Paton that put us in this situation @AnAngryAmerican

 

In general if Paton is a dead man walking, that's a terrible way to run an org. I don't think he should be fired and they need to continue to empower him but must be said he is obviously going to be on a shorter leash. 

That's what good leaders do. They just earned some respect from me. Keep in mind, they're the ones that gave George the authority to do what he did.

Also, it allows them to keep George in a capacity where he excels. The moves they are making so far look pretty good to me.

[Scoundrel]

Just now, AnAngryAmerican said:

Russ is fixable

What is so horribly sad for us is that he isn’t 

[AKRNA]

17 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Yep. The same point I've been making. 

Yet, the idea was shot to hell this morning in the George/Mr. Walmart press conference where they said Russ is fixable and they are committed to him long-term. 

As I said, they're going to probably hire the Quinn/Schottenheimer pairing and try to sell the fan base on how an improved "culture" (one of the buzzwords from this morning's cringeworthy press conference) and some good luck on the injury front will make next year different. They'll get KOA and Klis and MHR and the other usual suspects to parrot the "if we averaged 18 PPG in 2022 we'd have made the playoffs" line and hope that will sell enough tickets to cover their $100m investment in a new jumbotron and upgrades to the luxury suites to schmooze their corporate partners.

2023 could be a wasted season by biting the bullet on the Russ contract. Instead, 2023 and 2024 will be wasted seasons and we will be right back here in January 2025. 

I wouldn't read too much into that presser. He established the fact that he's in charge and will take full responsibility for all decisions. He's stopped the Peter principle firing practice by retaining George, a great move.

As far as Russ, he had to say something. I'm sure that's one of the major topics of owner discussions right now. I think we'll get a few surprises down the road.

[champ11]

44 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I've said it many times, George has made some mistakes - the Sutton contract coming off his injury, the signing of the constantly injured Randy Gregory, allowing Hackett to hire what was essentially a rookie staff and not retaining Munchak in even a consulting role, even taking PS2 over Fields in 2021 - for which the criticism leveled at him is fair. I would even say, as I did at the time, that keeping Vic and signing Teddy last year were mistakes (though understandable given the ownership situation). 

However, I do not think that the Russ trade or the subsequent extension were bad moves at the time they were made. I also can totally see the appeal of Hackett as an up-and-coming HC candidate, especially after Vic. No, we didn't hire Hackett just to get Rodgers, despite the narrative now. There is SO MUCH Monday Morning QBing going on right now it makes me sick. The talking heads are criticizing George now for moves they themselves were lauding at the time. 

The Walmarts are taking the "slander" because they're not football people and now they're going to be making football decisions; that's every fan's worst nightmare. That presser this morning was as embarrassing as the season has been. Last time we had a non-football person make a major football decision was when Joe Ellis fired Mike Shanahan and hired Josh McDaniels. How'd that work out? And at least Ellis had worked for a football team for 15 years, even if it was exclusive to the business side of the organization. The Walmarts have five months of football experience.

Al Davis was a decent coach. Jerry Jones played on a D-1 national championship team. 

The Walmarts are Dan Snyder without the criminal record. 

To be fair about the Rodgers thing - people were leveling that from the jump. Seems too incompetent to be possible, but who knows at this point. 

I give Paton a pass on the Russ thing, but I hold him fully accountable for the coaching decisions. He absolutely blew that and the consequences are dire. 

[Broncofan]

I will say this - it would be a terrible hire for us to find a HC solely to fix Russ.   That’s what your OC does.    But the bigger part is to create a team that’s accountable and performs at its highest level.   I still cling to the hope Russ is fixable - to be average.   When I used to hope for the top 6-8 guy that would be enough for us to contend.   But even that’s not something I’d want to sell the farm on.  Only a blind man would think that hope is something you invest everything into.    But making the next HC hire all about Russ is the wrong message - it should be putting Russ on notice he has to be accountable and not just catered to.   Because if he’s this bad then he’s likely done next offseason no matter what.  
 

The next HC we want is done one who can get the most of our team - like Mike Vrabel, John Harbaugh, etc.   Last year was the time to get a bright O mind like Daboll, McDaniel or O’Connell.   We whiffed hard.   This year’s pool has 1 standout who’s likely going elsewhere (Steichen).   I’d love to get him but seems highly unlikely.  Failing that our hope likely lies in a different skill set.    And IMO it should be someone we want for life after Russell Wilson.   Not just to try and fix him.  
 

Honestly the home run pick that wouldn’t cost picks and only $ would be Jim Harbaugh.  Sadly have no idea if he’s available or interested.   The other bold pick that could change culture and get the most out of the squad IMO - Brian Flores.  
 

And before @AnAngryAmerican points out the BB tree angle - I think we’ve seen him vindicated from his MIA tenure and his work with the PIT D shows his excellence is not solely living under BB’s shadow.     As this is a new ownership group they’d have zero ties to the whole prior interview either.  

If we’re not a top destination then it’s going to have be creative thinking wise.  Harbaugh & Flores both have the coaching style / mindset we need IMO.  Obv the OC they bring would be key too but long term matters just as much.  I want a guy that gives me hope long after 2023 is done, and when we’re talking 2025, 2027+ etc.  

In that vein - I agree Evero is a long shot but I hope he either stays or gets a promotion to HC so we win either way (keep him or get a valuable end of 3rd rd pick). 
 

 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Broncofan

[BroncoBruin]

1 hour ago, AKRNA said:

@BroncoBruin was the first guy to mention this. Right now you have to consider every option and that has to be on the table.

A clean slate in 2024, lots of cap room, a full compliment of high draft choices, a solid defense and a rebuilt, strong FO with deep pockets and no primadonna QB would be very attractive to a HC candidate. 

Compare that to what we've got to offer now. Pretty much a guarantee of failure and on the street in a year or two.

It’s the greatest tanking opportunity a team has ever been presented with imo. You have to slash other (overpriced) salaries to make it happen, which helps you long term anyway. There’s still a nice core of talent to build from in 2024, with zero financial constraints. 

Will never happen though. What coach is signing up for a tank job? 

[grizmo78]

My early top 3 would be:

Ken Dorsey - Would be a first time HC but he is in charge of the Buffalo offense while also having served as QB coach for Newton and the Panthers prior to working with Josh Allen. Concern would be limited background only having worked under two Defensive head coaches (Ron Rivera and McDermott)

Brian Callahan - I pointed out his coaching career last go around and now has had continued success with the Bengals. 

Shane Steichen - Worked with Phillip Rivers and Herbert before his work with Hurts. He's the one i'm most skeptical on given how easy the Eagles schedule has been this past year. 

All offensive coaches that I would hope would keep the defensive staff together. 

[Broncofan]

27 minutes ago, grizmo78 said:

My early top 3 would be:

Ken Dorsey - Would be a first time HC but he is in charge of the Buffalo offense while also having served as QB coach for Newton and the Panthers prior to working with Josh Allen. Concern would be limited background only having worked under two Defensive head coaches (Ron Rivera and McDermott)

Brian Callahan - I pointed out his coaching career last go around and now has had continued success with the Bengals. 

Shane Steichen - Worked with Phillip Rivers and Herbert before his work with Hurts. He's the one i'm most skeptical on given how easy the Eagles schedule has been this past year. 

All offensive coaches that I would hope would keep the defensive staff together. 

I would say Steichen's work with Herbert really impresses.    I would also say it's highly unlikely he'll come here, he'll have his pick of QB's to work with.

[AnAngryAmerican]

1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

I will say this - it would be a terrible hire for us to find a HC solely to fix Russ.   That’s what your OC does.    But the bigger part is to create a team that’s accountable and performs at its highest level.   I still cling to the hope Russ is fixable - to be average.   When I used to hope for the top 6-8 guy that would be enough for us to contend.   But even that’s not something I’d want to sell the farm on.  Only a blind man would think that hope is something you invest everything into.    But making the next HC hire all about Russ is the wrong message - it should be putting Russ on notice he has to be accountable and not just catered to.   Because if he’s this bad then he’s likely done next offseason no matter what.  
 

The next HC we want is done one who can get the most of our team - like Mike Vrabel, John Harbaugh, etc.   Last year was the time to get a bright O mind like Daboll, McDaniel or O’Connell.   We whiffed hard.   This year’s pool has 1 standout who’s likely going elsewhere (Steichen).   I’d love to get him but seems highly unlikely.  Failing that our hope likely lies in a different skill set.    And IMO it should be someone we want for life after Russell Wilson.   Not just to try and fix him.  
 

Honestly the home run pick that wouldn’t cost picks and only $ would be Jim Harbaugh.  Sadly have no idea if he’s available or interested.   The other bold pick that could change culture and get the most out of the squad IMO - Brian Flores.  
 

And before @AnAngryAmerican points out the BB tree angle - I think we’ve seen him vindicated from his MIA tenure and his work with the PIT D shows his excellence is not solely living under BB’s shadow.     As this is a new ownership group they’d have zero ties to the whole prior interview either.  

If we’re not a top destination then it’s going to have be creative thinking wise.  Harbaugh & Flores both have the coaching style / mindset we need IMO.  Obv the OC they bring would be key too but long term matters just as much.  I want a guy that gives me hope long after 2023 is done, and when we’re talking 2025, 2027+ etc.  

In that vein - I agree Evero is a long shot but I hope he either stays or gets a promotion to HC so we win either way (keep him or get a valuable end of 3rd rd pick). 
 

I read several accounts that Flores was a nightmare to work for and to work with in Miami; he was demanding, uncompromising and very difficult; like all BB castoffs he thought he was the smartest guy in the room, it was his way or the highway and he played favorites with the staff and the team. That doesn't excuse whatever the problems were with Ross, who seems as shady as owners get, but if he, Flores, created or at least fomented a toxic culture (and he wouldn't be the first BB assistant to do, in fact he'd be the first if he didn't create a toxic culture) that has to be a hard pass. Mike McDaniel, who is … quirky, certainly seems to have made things better down there after Flores' stink left the building. And anything that goes well in Pittsburgh, which is most things, go back to Mike Tomlin and the iron-clad culture he built that even Antonio Brown couldn't screw up. 

Patriot Way doesn't work. So stop it. They've said it about every. single. hire. from that tree. Remember how Joe Judge was going to be different? Or Mac in his second stint as a HC with the Raiders? What about Daboll who is 1-4-1 in his last six games? Brian Flores is not Mike Tomlin. So stop.