Week 17 Thread: Win + GB Loss + DET loss + SEA loss and we clinch THIS week.

[lavar703]

2 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

We watched the same game. He didn't get the job done. I'm not saying that Wentz would have, just that Heinicke needed to play great and he didn't. 

Come on dude. He needed to play great against the best defense in the league where we constantly singling up the defensive player of the year with our TEs and tackles? It’s like blaming him for fumbling when they again left Thibedeaux one on one with Leno at the goal line. “Oh that Heinicke. How dare he fumble”. 
 

Look I want to win so I do hope Wentz succeeds but this ideal that he somehow got better while watching when he’s basically sucked for 4 years now is mind boggling. 

[turtle28]

26 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

Come on dude. He needed to play great against the best defense in the league where we constantly singling up the defensive player of the year with our TEs and tackles? It’s like blaming him for fumbling when they again left Thibedeaux one on one with Leno at the goal line. “Oh that Heinicke. How dare he fumble”. 
 

Look I want to win so I do hope Wentz succeeds but this ideal that he somehow got better while watching when he’s basically sucked for 4 years now is mind boggling. 

[turtle28]

[e16bball]

46 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

Taylor basically had the best game a QB has had against this Niners defense during their win streak just FYI

If you leave out the soft fumble inside our own 20, followed immediately by the terrible INT inside our own 20. He really was having a nice day throwing the ball up until that point — but then he buried us with killer turnovers, just like he did against NYG the previous week. It’s a little harsh to disregard the good game because of late turnovers, but it’s not like Wentz got any of that particular courtesy when he tore up TEN but threw the pick at the end. 
 

At the end of it, I’m not sure why anyone feels that strongly on either side. Taylor is a marginal NFL QB. He only has a job because Scott Turner has a job, and while that’s cool, it definitely speaks to his limitations and his status as a true “system QB.” I think it was sensible to leave him in the starting seat while they were winning and ride that magical wave — but now they’re not winning. Losing to SF on the road is no great crime, but losing to NYG at home (when the defense gave up 13 points) was a killer. Frankly, blowing that lead and settling for the tie up in New Jersey was also a killer. Taylor knew he was on thin ice, and that he had to keep playing really well (and winning) to keep the job away from Wentz. And he hasn’t done either of those for at least a month, really. I think he’s gotten a pretty fair shake.

Wentz is also a very flawed player. I can’t imagine there’s any WAS fan anywhere pounding their chest and now anticipating us running roughshod through the NFC with Carson at the helm. But he’s the better pure thrower (a big deal to me) and they’re obviously banking on him having made strides in terms of system mastery. He has a history of excellence (early years in Philly, obviously) that they’re probably foolishly praying he can re-capture, but even his 2021 numbers in Indy are a level of performance that Taylor will never reach. If we can just get “Indy Wentz,” you have to like our chances to beat CLE (and potentially resting DAL) with this defense and playmaker group. 

Edited December 29, 2022 by e16bball

[turtle28]

 

[e16bball]

2 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Tyler Larsen is the new Brandon Scherff??

[turtle28]

3 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Wentz is also a very flawed player. I can’t imagine there’s any WAS fan anywhere pounding their chest and now anticipating us running roughshod through the NFC with Carson at the helm. But he’s the better pure thrower (a big deal to me) and they’re obviously banking on him having made strides in terms of system mastery. He has a history of excellence (early years in Philly, obviously) that they’re probably foolishly praying he can re-capture, but even his 2021 numbers in Indy are a level of performance that Taylor will never reach. If we can just get “Indy Wentz,” you have to like our chances to beat CLE (and potentially resting DAL) with this defense and playmaker group. 

Put in #Commanders or #HTTC into Twitter and you’ll find many blind homer Wentz Commanders supporters like he’s going to be so much better than Heinicke & play how he did the final two drives vs the 49ers all game.

[turtle28]

3 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Tyler Larsen is the new Brandon Scherff??

I think so! Maybe we cut Roullier & re-sign Larsen in March while we draft a mid round center to develop behind him.

[Slappy Mc]

22 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

Come on dude. He needed to play great against the best defense in the league where we constantly singling up the defensive player of the year with our TEs and tackles? It’s like blaming him for fumbling when they again left Thibedeaux one on one with Leno at the goal line. “Oh that Heinicke. How dare he fumble”. 

If your boss announces that he might make a change to your job position if there isn't improvement and there is no improvement, should they let you keep your job? 

Ron was considering it enough he spoke about making a change. Heinicke failed to meet the challenge (Year 1 Ron in the building). 

Maybe he will challenge Wentz and we could see Howell. Who knows, but there is a clear outlier for our success we have had and it's 100% "Quarterback".

[Slappy Mc]

3 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Put in #Commanders or #HTTC into Twitter and you’ll find many blind homer Wentz Commanders supporters like he’s going to be so much better than Heinicke & play how he did the final two drives vs the 49ers all game.

I am so hopeful that Wentz makes you eat those words. (Minus the Commander thing because that's still gross)

[lavar703]

5 minutes ago, e16bball said:

If you leave out the soft fumble inside our own 20, followed immediately by the terrible INT inside our own 20. He really was having a nice day throwing the ball up until that point — but then he buried us with killer turnovers, just like he did against NYG the previous week. It’s a little harsh to disregard the good game because of late turnovers, but it’s not like Wentz got any of that particular courtesy when he tore up TEN but threw the pick at the end. 
 

At the end of it, I’m not sure why anyone feels that strongly on either side. Taylor is a marginal NFL QB. He only has a job because Scott Turner has a job, and while that’s cool, it definitely speaks to his limitations and his status as a true “system QB.” I think it was sensible to leave him in the starting seat while they were winning and ride that magical wave — but now they’re not winning. Losing to SF on the road is no great crime, but losing to NYG at home (when the defense gave up 13 points) was a killer. Frankly, blowing that lead and settling for the tie up in New Jersey was also a killer. Taylor knew he was on thin ice, and that he had to keep playing really well (and winning) to keep the job away from Wentz. And he hasn’t done either of those for at least a month, really. I think he’s gotten a pretty fair shake.

Wentz is also a very flawed player. I can’t imagine there’s any WAS fan anywhere pounding their chest and now anticipating us running roughshod through the NFC with Carson at the helm. But he’s the better pure thrower (a big deal to me) and they’re obviously banking on him having made strides in terms of system mastery. He has a history of excellence (early years in Philly, obviously) that they’re probably foolishly praying he can re-capture, but even his 2021 numbers in Indy are a level of performance that Taylor will never reach. If we can just get “Indy Wentz,” you have to like our chances to beat CLE (and potentially resting DAL) with this defense and playmaker group. 

My biggest issue with continuing to play Wentz is Rivera talking himself into picking up his option. Let’s not pretend he isn’t silly enough to do it. 
 

Also, he sucks. He had 8 games with the colts where he threw for under 200 yards. Over his last 4 games starting with us he went for over 250 once, threw 3 TDs to 3 picks, only completed over 60% of his passes once and we were 1-3 in those starts. That’s not someone getting better in a system. That’s someone regressing. 
 

I get he can make passes Heinicke can only dream of and he has ability far surpassing Taylor’s but he isn’t any good. He hasn’t been for years now. I don’t think Taylor is the future but I don’t want this team foolishly anchoring themselves to this dude and Ron is dumb enough to do it. 

[lavar703]

5 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

If your boss announces that he might make a change to your job position if there isn't improvement and there is no improvement, should they let you keep your job? 

Ron was considering it enough he spoke about making a change. Heinicke failed to meet the challenge (Year 1 Ron in the building). 

Maybe he will challenge Wentz and we could see Howell. Who knows, but there is a clear outlier for our success we have had and it's 100% "Quarterback".

No improvement? He left the game against the 49ers with a 114 passer rating and two TD passes. It was the best start against that defense during their streak. I think it’s a stretch to say “no improvement”. 

[Slappy Mc]

1 minute ago, lavar703 said:

No improvement? He left the game against the 49ers with a 114 passer rating and two TD passes. It was the best start against that defense during their streak. I think it’s a stretch to say “no improvement”. 

How much improvement would you say he showed?

You cannot tell me that after his fumble, which I was upset about but it was a bang bang play and he almost was down before the ball comes loose, you did not know he would be aggressive to "get that one back". The INT was a forced play that shouldn't have happened. There was no one to blame other than Taylor.

[offbyone]

1 hour ago, Slappy Mc said:

You literally have zero evidence to this notion. 

The change was correct because TH wasn't protecting the ball and getting the job done. They loaded the box and dared TH to throw and he failed.

Carson didn't get Taylor benched. Taylor got Taylor benched. 

You are right, that is a feeling, and has no scientific basis, but I think we can all agree the team seemed energized to play for Heinicke.  That is my only basis.

Heinicke should absolutely take the blame on some of the turnovers, but I don't blame him for sack fumbles when he is getting completely assaulted with a horrendously playing oline.

I guess I also don't see the turnovers as a reason to switch to wentz as wentz was a turnover machine when he was starting.  Wentz did not protect the football.  

The reason you switch to Wentz is if you think they are suddenly going to become an explosive point scoring offense.  I don't believe that will happen.

[offbyone]

45 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Tyler Larsen is the new Brandon Scherff??

hah, lol.  Or maybe the new Ereck Flowers

But I will say, not having a competent center in the last several games has been telling.  It kind of shocks me we can't find someone better than Schweitzer out there considering how undervalued center position seems to be by the league as a whole.  I would also think they would be motivated to find such a human as Schweitzer is probably the best right guard on the roster.