Week 17 Thread: Win + GB Loss + DET loss + SEA loss and we clinch THIS week.

[Slappy Mc]

4 minutes ago, offbyone said:

You are right, that is a feeling, and has no scientific basis, but I think we can all agree the team seemed energized to play for Heinicke.  That is my only basis.

Heinicke should absolutely take the blame on some of the turnovers, but I don't blame him for sack fumbles when he is getting completely assaulted with a horrendously playing oline.

I guess I also don't see the turnovers as a reason to switch to wentz as wentz was a turnover machine when he was starting.  Wentz did not protect the football.  

The reason you switch to Wentz is if you think they are suddenly going to become an explosive point scoring offense.  I don't believe that will happen.

Carson Wentz - 6 games played 7 turnovers = 1.16 turnovers per game

Taylor Heinicke - 9 games played 11 turnovers = 1.22 turnovers per game

So are they both turnover machines by your definition?

[Slappy Mc]

1 minute ago, offbyone said:

hah, lol.  Or maybe the new Ereck Flowers

But I will say, not having a competent center in the last several games has been telling.  It kind of shocks me we can't find someone better than Schweitzer out there considering how undervalued center position seems to be by the league as a whole.  I would also think they would be motivated to find such a human as Schweitzer is probably the best right guard on the roster.

If we make the postseason we should call JC Tretter (hell I'd call him now, but I think he might answer if we make the postseason).

[offbyone]

1 minute ago, Slappy Mc said:

Carson Wentz - 6 games played 7 turnovers = 1.16 turnovers per game

Taylor Heinicke - 9 games played 11 turnovers = 1.22 turnovers per game

So are they both turnover machines by your definition?

Yes, exactly in my opinion the turnover situation is a push.  So that isn't a reason to make the decision to switch to Wentz.  

[Slappy Mc]

Just now, offbyone said:

Yes, exactly in my opinion the turnover situation is a push.  So that isn't a reason to make the decision to switch to Wentz.  

The decision was made because Taylor showed he didn't improve. If he doesn't go all gunslinger and throw to the 49ers defender with no receiver even close to it, he probably finishes the game and is still the starter. He tried to force it and was way off on his pass. (Also I 100% agree that our OLine was a huge reason why Taylor struggled) As I said before, I don't know that Wentz would fair any better, but if the roles were reversed, everyone would have been calling for his head. The only reason this is an issue for people is because of how likable Heinicke is.

[lavar703]

1 hour ago, Slappy Mc said:

How much improvement would you say he showed?

You cannot tell me that after his fumble, which I was upset about but it was a bang bang play and he almost was down before the ball comes loose, you did not know he would be aggressive to "get that one back". The INT was a forced play that shouldn't have happened. There was no one to blame other than Taylor.

Nobody knows what that interception was? He clearly believed Robinson was going to continue on his route but he stopped. Who do you think knows this playbook better? Robinson or Heinicke? 

[lavar703]

50 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

The decision was made because Taylor showed he didn't improve. If he doesn't go all gunslinger and throw to the 49ers defender with no receiver even close to it, he probably finishes the game and is still the starter. He tried to force it and was way off on his pass. (Also I 100% agree that our OLine was a huge reason why Taylor struggled) As I said before, I don't know that Wentz would fair any better, but if the roles were reversed, everyone would have been calling for his head. The only reason this is an issue for people is because of how likable Heinicke is.

The reason it’s an issue is because we were 2-4 with Wentz and we’re now in a position to make the playoffs with Heinicke. It just feels like a dirtbag move. 

[Slappy Mc]

7 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

The reason it’s an issue is because we were 2-4 with Wentz and we’re now in a position to make the playoffs with Heinicke. It just feels like a dirtbag move. 

Ask Jon Allen if he thinks they won all them games because of Taylor Heinicke. Ask Daron Payne. Ask Montez Sweat. Ask Jamin Davis. Ask Kendall Fuller. Ask Brian Robinson. The list goes on. The point is they won "with" Taylor Heinicke, not because of him. I pointed it out many times that Heinicke did not give us better QB play. He understood (understands?) the playbook/system much better than Wentz. But as the discussion has proved, he never improved anything. We got slightly worse QB play and the rest of the team thrived. I would absolutely say he was being carried by the rest of the team before I ever thought it be the other way around.

[lavar703]

26 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

Ask Jon Allen if he thinks they won all them games because of Taylor Heinicke. Ask Daron Payne. Ask Montez Sweat. Ask Jamin Davis. Ask Kendall Fuller. Ask Brian Robinson. The list goes on. The point is they won "with" Taylor Heinicke, not because of him. I pointed it out many times that Heinicke did not give us better QB play. He understood (understands?) the playbook/system much better than Wentz. But as the discussion has proved, he never improved anything. We got slightly worse QB play and the rest of the team thrived. I would absolutely say he was being carried by the rest of the team before I ever thought it be the other way around.

Slightly worse QB play? Did you see the numbers I posted about Wentz last 4 starts? He was regressing. He wasn’t getting better. 

[MKnight82]

10 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

Slightly worse QB play? Did you see the numbers I posted about Wentz last 4 starts? He was regressing. He wasn’t getting better. 

Ya other teams got tape on Wentz in this offense and he couldn’t adapt.

[e16bball]

1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

My biggest issue with continuing to play Wentz is Rivera talking himself into picking up his option. Let’s not pretend he isn’t silly enough to do it. 

That would be awful. You could cut him and resign him for half the price of that next year salary, if you were insistent on trying to keep him. 

1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

Also, he sucks. He had 8 games with the colts where he threw for under 200 yards.

Okay, but I think we’re overestimating the standard he has to meet in order to still represent an upgrade here. Taylor is averaging 206 yards per start this season, and he’s thrown for under 202 yards in 5 of his 9 starts. 

1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

Over his last 4 games starting with us he went for over 250 once, threw 3 TDs to 3 picks, only completed over 60% of his passes once and we were 1-3 in those starts. That’s not someone getting better in a system. That’s someone regressing. 

I mean, in fairness, two of those games were against PHI and DAL (who both ate our OL alive) — and he played much of the fourth game with a broken finger.

He was absolutely terrible in those 3 games, no doubt about that. But odds are that circumstances will be rather different for these last two games — and for the playoff opener against MIN, were we to get there. None of those teams are going to comprehensively destroy our OL like we saw in those two hideous division games, unless for some reason DAL is playing their stars. 

[e16bball]

2 hours ago, offbyone said:

hah, lol.  Or maybe the new Ereck Flowers

But I will say, not having a competent center in the last several games has been telling.  It kind of shocks me we can't find someone better than Schweitzer out there considering how undervalued center position seems to be by the league as a whole.  I would also think they would be motivated to find such a human as Schweitzer is probably the best right guard on the roster.

I was really hoping that Nick Martin would end up being a viable option for us in the middle. Alas…that did not appear to be the case. I agree that Schweitzer is probably the best RG we have, although they seem to be toying more and more with Cosmi there. He got 10 snaps against the Niners at guard. 

[Slappy Mc]

2 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

Slightly worse QB play? Did you see the numbers I posted about Wentz last 4 starts? He was regressing. He wasn’t getting better. 

That was easily the worst the entire team has played all year. I am pretty sure Wentz last game was when Jon Allen told the fans to keep the same energy with our complaining when they turn things around. That was everyone, they all improved after that. And yes, Heinicke was worse at QB than Carson Wentz, regardless of the teams success during their starting gigs.

[lavar703]

21 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

That was easily the worst the entire team has played all year. I am pretty sure Wentz last game was when Jon Allen told the fans to keep the same energy with our complaining when they turn things around. That was everyone, they all improved after that. And yes, Heinicke was worse at QB than Carson Wentz, regardless of the teams success during their starting gigs.

Why does there always have to be some outside force that explains why Wentz sucked? I just can’t believe people genuinely have convinced themselves this team going from a total disaster, dead in the water 2-4 to being the 7th seed in the playoffs was a total coincidence and had nothing to do with Wentz leaving the lineup.

[Slappy Mc]

32 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

Why does there always have to be some outside force that explains why Heinicke sucked? I just can’t believe people genuinely have convinced themselves this team going from a total disaster, dead in the water 2-4 to being the 7th seed in the playoffs was total Heinicke Magic Time and had nothing to do with the defense going from bottom 5 to top 10 and getting Brian Robinson back from his gunshot wound, Scott Turner calling a more run heavy approach and the defense finally forcing turnovers.

F.T.F.Y.

[lavar703]

6 hours ago, Slappy Mc said:

F.T.F.Y.

Except that’s not what I’m saying at all. These were all contributing factors that include Heinicke.