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2023 QB


paraven

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My biggest issue with this situation is the way that Harbaugh is handling the Lamar injury issues. He did the same thing with Ronnie Stanley where he couldn’t just be clear from the get go and that led to frustration within the fandom over guys not achieving recovery timelines.

In previous seasons even if he were attempting to be covert he would say things like, “you know that’s a good question, I don’t yet have an update for when x player is supposed to return.” Whereas now he’s all ornery like “you know, I’m not a doctor, so I have no idea.”

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7 hours ago, jpeter15 said:

This could also backfire terribly. Without an agent to vet things it would be easy for a team that has no love for us to say to Lamar, “we’ll absolutely give you a fully guaranteed contract if Baltimore is reasonable with their trade demands “ It then puts even more angst in our relationship with him if we are wanting 3+ 1sts and that team floating a fully guaranteed contract isn’t actually serious and offers something they know we will reject. 

True

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7 hours ago, jpeter15 said:

This could also backfire terribly. Without an agent to vet things it would be easy for a team that has no love for us to say to Lamar, “we’ll absolutely give you a fully guaranteed contract if Baltimore is reasonable with their trade demands “ It then puts even more angst in our relationship with him if we are wanting 3+ 1sts and that team floating a fully guaranteed contract isn’t actually serious and offers something they know we will reject. 

We set our price first, just like the Watson deal. The other teams could currently whisper any fake contract they want whether they are officially allowed to negotiate or not. We'd be forcing them to make it an official offer. Also Lamar is certainly consulting with people who know contracts.

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7 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Lamar is definitely not returning before the regular season is over, and at this point unless he practices next week I'd have doubts of him returning for our first playoff game, either. I do love how his timeline went from "maybe next week" to "2-3 weeks" to now being "4-6 weeks, which is totally normal for this type of injury". I'm not going to be surprised if we don't see him again at all this year.

That's fine if that's your belief, but let's not confuse beliefs with facts. 

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8 hours ago, jpeter15 said:

This could also backfire terribly. Without an agent to vet things it would be easy for a team that has no love for us to say to Lamar, “we’ll absolutely give you a fully guaranteed contract if Baltimore is reasonable with their trade demands “ It then puts even more angst in our relationship with him if we are wanting 3+ 1sts and that team floating a fully guaranteed contract isn’t actually serious and offers something they know we will reject. 

Based off the precedent that we saw with the Orlando Brown Jr scenario, we  set a minimum price for what we wanted in draft compensation and it was up to Brown Jr’s team to secure said deal from opposing teams, otherwise no deal.

So similarly it wouldn’t be as though Lamar and his team would have zero instruction. If we’re going to deal Lamar we would be informing him for example “our minimum deal that we will accept are 3 firsts and a day two selection.”

Then if the market is willing to meet his salary demands and our minimum draft compensation then we would choose to negotiate amongst his preferred destinations and/or offer him a market consistent deal with each side knowing what the fair market value is before making any final decisions.

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35 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Not signing + not playing well + getting injured + the team going 3-1 (maybe 4-1) in his absence = he's cost himself a ton of money.

So you predict Lamar is going to sign a deal that is less than what the Ravens offered this summer? You would have to think so to think he cost himself money.

IMO, the only way he costs himself a lot of money is with a far more serious injury or a terrible off the field incident. As things stand I see no chance the Ravens ask him to take even less than they already offered. He only gains leverage being on the much larger and elevating franchise tag, and league-wide cap space is going significantly with the streaming deals starting.

Edited by wackywabbit
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4 hours ago, wackywabbit said:

So you predict Lamar is going to sign a deal that is less than what the Ravens offered this summer? You would have to think so to think he cost himself money.

No, I'm saying he's never going to get a fully guaranteed deal. Last year was his best shot and he blew it, I don't think he ever comes close to that.

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9 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

No, I'm saying he's never going to get a fully guaranteed deal. Last year was his best shot and he blew it, I don't think he ever comes close to that.

OK, maybe or maybe not. But that doesn't mean he lost money by not signing the deal that was offered last offseason, unless there was a fully guaranteed deal offered to him.

I don't know if it is 100% accurate but the leaked offer reported a couple places was a 5 year extension (23-27 on top of the 22 5th year), worth $250M with $133M guaranteed. 

I don't see Lamar not getting that same offer after the season from the Ravens, let alone from another team that goes all in to steal him.

Edited by wackywabbit
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On 12/29/2022 at 5:43 PM, diamondbull424 said:

My biggest issue with this situation is the way that Harbaugh is handling the Lamar injury issues. He did the same thing with Ronnie Stanley where he couldn’t just be clear from the get go and that led to frustration within the fandom over guys not achieving recovery timelines.

In previous seasons even if he were attempting to be covert he would say things like, “you know that’s a good question, I don’t yet have an update for when x player is supposed to return.” Whereas now he’s all ornery like “you know, I’m not a doctor, so I have no idea.”

I agree with this criticism. They had to know there was 0% chance Lamar played the next week after the injury and he was still speaking like there was some chance of it. Whatever little is gained from messing up the opponent's planning was likely lost by the distraction element.

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2 hours ago, wackywabbit said:

OK, maybe or maybe not. But that doesn't mean he lost money by not signing the deal that was offered last offseason, unless there was a fully guaranteed deal offered to him.

I don't know if it is 100% accurate but the leaked offer reported a couple places was a 5 year extension (23-27 on top of the 22 5th year), worth $250M with $133M guaranteed. 

I don't see Lamar not getting that same offer after the season from the Ravens, let alone from another team that goes all in to steal him.

Really? I think it's a fair deal and wouldn't be surprised if the Ravens remake this offer. 

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2 hours ago, wackywabbit said:

OK, maybe or maybe not. But that doesn't mean he lost money by not signing the deal that was offered last offseason, unless there was a fully guaranteed deal offered to him.

I don't know if it is 100% accurate but the leaked offer reported a couple places was a 5 year extension (23-27 on top of the 22 5th year), worth $250M with $133M guaranteed. 

I don't see Lamar not getting that same offer after the season from the Ravens, let alone from another team that goes all in to steal him.

If that was their offer last year, I don't see what Lamar has done this year to ask for more money.

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23 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

Really? I think it's a fair deal and wouldn't be surprised if the Ravens remake this offer. 

Perhaps I was unclear with the double negative (I don't see Lamar not getting that same offer after the season from the Ravens). I predict the Ravens will start the offseason with the exact same offer on the table. So, I think we agree.

I don't think they will say "Well after watching this season play out, we are offering you this smaller contract". Which would be the only way Lamar lost money.

Edited by wackywabbit
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14 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

If that was their offer last year, I don't see what Lamar has done this year to ask for more money.

What he has done is gain more leverage by not signing for another year. The Ravens hold on him is now escalating exclusive franchise tag money vs 5th year option money. He didn't have to establish a new baseline of play for himself to ask for money than when he had less leverage.

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