2023 QB

[SalvadorsDeli]

Odds of Lamar playing out next year on a franchise tag are exceedingly low. Think people are really just ignoring the writing on the wall on this one. We'll franchise him, he'll hold out, he'll be traded by draft day. Only real suspense is whether Harbaugh gets another cycle with a new QB or not IMO. 

[paraven]

8 hours ago, SalvadorsDeli said:

Odds of Lamar playing out next year on a franchise tag are exceedingly low. Think people are really just ignoring the writing on the wall on this one. We'll franchise him, he'll hold out, he'll be traded by draft day. Only real suspense is whether Harbaugh gets another cycle with a new QB or not IMO. 

Hes gone. I expect Carr to be the bridge QB in 2023

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 hour ago, paraven said:

Hes gone. I expect Carr to be the bridge QB in 2023

Derek Carr going from throwing to Davante Adams to Devin Duvernay would be absolutely hilarious

[DreamKid]

On 1/1/2023 at 9:20 PM, SalvadorsDeli said:

Only real suspense is whether Harbaugh gets another cycle with a new QB or not IMO. 

Refusing to extend Lamar and then allowing this coaching staff to have another shot at a new high end QB prospect would clearly signal to me that Biscotti isn't interested in heading a winning club anymore. 

[Ray Reed]

Here’s a question: Herbert deal is reportedly going to get done next offseason. If he signs a non-fully guaranteed contract, do you think Lamar would come off that hill?

I feel like it would be pretty unreasonable of him to stick to that if the next wave of QB contracts just prove that the Watson contract was a complete albatross/one time thing.

[DontTazeMeBro]

There’s no ******* way Lamar Jackson is going to be playing for another team next year. Bisciotti would be the dumbest owner ever if he let Jackson walk. The minute Jackson isn’t the QB of this team we’re sub .500. Probably for a long long time. Even if Jackson refuses to play next year you still wait him out.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

31 minutes ago, DontTazeMeBro said:

There’s no ******* way Lamar Jackson is going to be playing for another team next year. Bisciotti would be the dumbest owner ever if he let Jackson walk. The minute Jackson isn’t the QB of this team we’re sub .500. Probably for a long long time. Even if Jackson refuses to play next year you still wait him out.

I mean, we're 3-2 right now without Jackson with an offense that can't even score 16 points. Hard to imagine us being worse than that over the course of a full season.

[AngusMcFife]

3 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I mean, we're 3-2 right now without Jackson with an offense that can't even score 16 points. Hard to imagine us being worse than that over the course of a full season.

If Jackson is not in the fold, though, the morale might tank. Veterans like Campbell and Houston would not be interested in playing at a low price for the team if it is not contending. 

[SalvadorsDeli]

19 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I mean, we're 3-2 right now without Jackson with an offense that can't even score 16 points. Hard to imagine us being worse than that over the course of a full season.

Over the course of a whole season you're not going to play an isolated cupcake schedule. If the defense standing on its head against the worst offenses in the league yields you a .500 team then you're a bad football team overall. 

Last year when we went from 8-3 to 8-9 after Lamar went down is probably a better indicator of what this org looks like if they bet on Harbaugh instead of Lamar come this offseason. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by SalvadorsDeli

[Ray Reed]

25 minutes ago, SalvadorsDeli said:

Over the course of a whole season you're not going to play an isolated cupcake schedule. If the defense standing on its head against the worst offenses in the league yields you a .500 team then you're a bad football team overall. 

Last year when we went from 8-3 to 8-9 after Lamar went down is probably a better indicator of what this org looks like if they bet on Harbaugh instead of Lamar come this offseason. 

I'm pretty much in line with your thoughts on this whole issue and agree that Harbaugh's time should probably be coming to an end here soon, but to play devil's advocate:

Lamar is 15-9 as a starter the last two seasons, and he's missed 10 games in that span. So it's not exactly like we're in 2018-2020 where he's winning 75% of his games he starts and is consistently staying healthy. If we're only a 62% win percentage team when he is behind center, and he's missing a handful of games every year on top of that, that's not exactly a recipe for sustained success either. 

I'm just at the point where I can see both sides of the Lamar/FO standoff. From Lamar's perspective, he's earned top dollar in this league and deserves better weapons around him. I don't blame him for taking that stance. From the Ravens perspective, pending the Herbert/Burrow contracts, there's been exactly 1 other fully guaranteed contract in NFL history (in one of the wilder situations the past few decades), and giving the 2nd one to a guy who's success is tied to his legs who has suffered lower body injuries the last 2 years and forced him to miss 10 games may not be the prudent thing to do either for a FO. I don't blame them for that stance either.

Just a frustrating situation all around but I don't really view either side as a villain in all of this

Edited January 5, 2023 by Ray Reed

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

32 minutes ago, SalvadorsDeli said:

Over the course of a whole season you're not going to play an isolated cupcake schedule. If the defense standing on its head against the worst offenses in the league yields you a .500 team then you're a bad football team overall. 

Last year when we went from 8-3 to 8-9 after Lamar went down is probably a better indicator of what this org looks like if they bet on Harbaugh instead of Lamar come this offseason. 

I swing back and forth seemingly every week, and currently I'm at the "How can this organization reasonably be expected to hand a guaranteed contract to a guy who has not been healthy for 2 straight seasons down the stretch when his team is making a playoff push?"

Last year Huntley was keeping us in games, and we just failed to close them out in various fashions. This year, the offense (and Huntley) look completely lost and dysfunctional while the defense again fails to close out games (common theme all season).

If we are a .500 team with the worst offense in the NFL from a PPG perspective and the best defense, surely we would be lightyears better with a stopgap QB like Derek Carr, Jimmy G, etc., right? Obviously plan A is Lamar, but I don't think there's just one solution to this team moving forward. You have to address the QB position, you have to address the offensive coordinator role, you have to address why the HC seemingly has no idea what he's doing, and you have to address why the Front Office has utterly failed to capitalize on the 4-year window of having one of the most electrifying QB's this sport has ever seen and entered this year with arguably the worst plan at WR I've ever seen.

[SalvadorsDeli]

29 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

I'm pretty much in line with your thoughts on this whole issue and agree that Harbaugh's time should probably be coming to an end here soon, but to play devil's advocate:

Lamar is 15-9 as a starter the last two seasons, and he's missed 10 games in that span. So it's not exactly like we're in 2018-2020 where he's winning 75% of his games he starts and is consistently staying healthy. If we're only a 62% win percentage team when he is behind center, and he's missing a handful of games every year on top of that, that's not exactly a recipe for sustained success either. 

I'm just at the point where I can see both sides of the Lamar/FO standoff. From Lamar's perspective, he's earned top dollar in this league and deserves better weapons around him. I don't blame him for taking that stance. From the Ravens perspective, pending the Herbert/Burrow contracts, there's been exactly 1 other fully guaranteed contract in NFL history (in one of the wilder situations the past few decades), and giving the 2nd one to a guy who's success is tied to his legs who has suffered lower body injuries the last 2 years and forced him to miss 10 games may not be the prudent thing to do either for a FO. I don't blame them for that stance either.

Just a frustrating situation all around but I don't really view either side as a villain in all of this

Yeah don't get me wrong I don't want to discount how complicated these negotiations were going to be, and I don't think Lamar is blameless in letting things sort of spin out into this current situation where things feel like they're headed towards inevitable divorce - particularly if, as at least on my end I suspect, he's quasi-quiet quitting on the team this season and prioritizing his bag over the chance to compete for a title. Think it was really dumb of him not to hire an agent. You need advisors who aren't afraid to tell you what you don't want to hear and I get the sense by allowing the NFLPA/his family to drive this he's just surrounded himself with amateurs and yes-men. He's a young, emotional, and immature guy which wouldn't be a problem (doesn't really make him any different from any other star athlete) except that it feels like he's letting those traits predominate over what should be a more nuanced/detached and complicated business negotiation. 

My comment though, was really just more about what this org looks like next year if/when Lamar is traded. We probably won't bottom out under Harbaugh but his ceiling is basically getting this team to scrape a wild card berth at around .500. Q really is whether Bisciotti cares enough to ask for more. Harbaugh can keep the team 'competitive' enough that the org be able to charge quasi-premium prices for December home games because we'll be an extremely dull 7-8 team and staring at a possible route to the 7th seed most years - that may well be all Bisciotti really asks for in which case this franchise is basically cooked. I'd still rather take my chances with Lamar on a big contract compared to that - but I do get that there's risks either way. 

I can probably talk myself into being excited to watch this team rebuild w/o Lamar with a boatload of picks if we move on from Harbaugh. It would be frustrating, but at the same time I'd be curious to see what EDC can do as a GM if he's paired with a coaching staff with a less generically conservative scheme/mindset, and it'd give us something as fans to really invest in and build towards. What I'm concerned about is the org handing the keys back to Harbaugh to lead this rebuild just as he's really settling into his Jeff Fisher years and basically ensuring that this org doesn't really even try to move forward and compete at the highest levels again. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by SalvadorsDeli

[Ray Reed]

36 minutes ago, SalvadorsDeli said:

Yeah don't get me wrong I don't want to discount how complicated these negotiations were going to be, and I don't think Lamar is blameless in letting things sort of spin out into this current situation where things feel like they're headed towards inevitable divorce - particularly if, as at least on my end I suspect, he's quasi-quiet quitting on the team this season and prioritizing his bag over the chance to compete for a title. Think it was really dumb of him not to hire an agent. You need advisors who aren't afraid to tell you what you don't want to hear and I get the sense by allowing the NFLPA/his family to drive this he's just surrounded himself with amateurs and yes-men. He's a young, emotional, and immature guy which wouldn't be a problem (doesn't really make him any different from any other star athlete) except that it feels like he's letting those traits predominate over what should be a more nuanced/detached and complicated business negotiation. 

My comment though, was really just more about what this org looks like next year if/when Lamar is traded. We probably won't bottom out under Harbaugh but his ceiling is basically getting this team to scrape a wild card berth at around .500. Q really is whether Bisciotti cares enough to ask for more. Harbaugh can keep the team 'competitive' enough that the org be able to charge quasi-premium prices for December home games because we'll be an extremely dull 7-8 team and staring at a possible route to the 7th seed most years - that may well be all Bisciotti really asks for in which case this franchise is basically cooked. I'd still rather take my chances with Lamar on a big contract compared to that - but I do get that there's risks either way. 

I can probably talk myself into being excited to watch this team rebuild w/o Lamar with a boatload of picks if we move on from Harbaugh. It would be frustrating, but at the same time I'd be curious to see what EDC can do as a GM if he's paired with a coaching staff with a less generically conservative scheme/mindset, and it'd give us something as fans to really invest in and build towards. What I'm concerned about is the org handing the keys back to Harbaugh to lead this rebuild just as he's really settling into his Jeff Fisher years and basically ensuring that this org doesn't really even try to move forward and compete at the highest levels again. 

Well said. It will be really telling to hear what Biscotti says if he makes one of his rare speaking appearances this offseason. I think he needs to at least try and answer the "content with just getting by" attitude that seems to have permeated the organization the past 3-4 years. Hopefully he does schedule something and someone in the Baltimore media is brave enough to ask him that, because unfortunately that's become the reality for this organization/coaching staff the past half decade. 

[baltimoreRebel]

I'm not sure what to expect this off season. I think the writing is on the wall right now. I don't see Lamar as a Raven next season. I do think this can all be resolved with fair contract and some discussions. Lamar is the entire offense and that's not even debatable. 

Who plays QB for this team next year if Lamar is traded? I have a wild idea that most would hate but I truly believe a guy like Baker Mayfield could keep us competetive while we bring along the QB we draft. 

 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

49 minutes ago, baltimoreRebel said:

Who plays QB for this team next year if Lamar is traded? I have a wild idea that most would hate but I truly believe a guy like Baker Mayfield could keep us competetive while we bring along the QB we draft. 

Depends on who the OC is.

If Greg Roman is still here, we'd need a somewhat mobile QB - someone like Tyrod Taylor could be available. We could roll with Anthony Brown or sign/draft someone else. I mean, we made Tyler Huntley look serviceable for a short while, we could do that again.

If it's not Greg Roman, then someone like Baker or Carr or Jimmy G or whoever could also work with the weapons we currently have + Bateman and probably another high drafted WR.