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18 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

Would you trade the #2 pick to Washington for #14 (probably #12 or #13 after they lose Sunday), 3rd round pick, Daron Payne (in this scenario they'd tag and trade him with an extension already worked out here), 1st round pick in 2024 and a 4th round pick in 2024?

No seems a little light for moving down that many spots. I'd want a 2nd instead of a 3rd in 2023 and a 3rd instead of a 4th in 2024 but even then I'd be a little hesitant. 

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41 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

Would you trade the #2 pick to Washington for #14 (probably #12 or #13 after they lose Sunday), 3rd round pick, Daron Payne (in this scenario they'd tag and trade him with an extension already worked out here), 1st round pick in 2024 and a 4th round pick in 2024?

This is so very unlikely to happen as part of a larger package for a Top overall pick

But in general, I am not dropping below 8. There are likely now going to be 3 QBs taken at the top of the draft, because for some reason NFL GMs cant help themselves and are apparently going to fight over the right to draft the Bust that is Will Levis. But that can work to our advantage, especially if the Rams can get a win this weekend, with the Falcons/Raiders/Panthers all lose.

But I say #8 because along with those 3 QBs, there are 5 guys Id be happy walking away with. Obviously Carter and Anderson, but also Tyree Wilson, Bryan Bresee, and Myles Murphy will all be major upgrades, immediate contributors and I believe long time cornerstones of this defense. 

If I were to drop lower than that, I would need to be BLOWN AWAY to make a deal. 

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1 minute ago, StLunatic88 said:

This is so very unlikely to happen as part of a larger package for a Top overall pick

But in general, I am not dropping below 8. There are likely now going to be 3 QBs taken at the top of the draft, because for some reason NFL GMs cant help themselves and are apparently going to fight over the right to draft the Bust that is Will Levis. But that can work to our advantage, especially if the Rams can get a win this weekend, with the Falcons/Raiders/Panthers all lose.

But I say #8 because along with those 3 QBs, there are 5 guys Id be happy walking away with. Obviously Carter and Anderson, but also Tyree Wilson, Bryan Bresee, and Myles Murphy will all be major upgrades, immediate contributors and I believe long time cornerstones of this defense. 

If I were to drop lower than that, I would need to be BLOWN AWAY to make a deal. 

Pretty much my entire philosophy for this draft too. 

Poles can patchwork players in, but there is a need for some stars to added to the roster.

Quentin Johnston is intriguing but one year of high end produxtion has me nervous, Penn States Olu Fashanu isn't coming out, and Robinson looks like a hell of a prospect but for a RB to be top 10 they need to be crazy good IMO. Jones and Skoronski (sp?) both look good but idk if they're good enough prospects to ignore the guys you listed. 

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7 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

Pretty much my entire philosophy for this draft too. 

Poles can patchwork players in, but there is a need for some stars to added to the roster.

Quentin Johnston is intriguing but one year of high end produxtion has me nervous, Penn States Olu Fashanu isn't coming out, and Robinson looks like a hell of a prospect but for a RB to be top 10 they need to be crazy good IMO. Jones and Skoronski (sp?) both look good but idk if they're good enough prospects to ignore the guys you listed. 

If we are moving outside the Top 8, Im honestly looking to move down twice at that point. I know thats not the most likely thing, but I dont like anyone more than the others when it comes to my draft projections from like 10-25. 

Yes Quentin Johnston is in there, but is he all that much more appealing than Addison or JSN?

Those OLine guys of Skoronski or Broderick Jones are definitely in play, but the way he is likely to fly up boards, is more assets with Darnell Wright more appealing?

And on top of all of that, there are some good CBs I'd drool over putting into this secondary that I think will be the best unit on this team in 2023. Joey Porter, Christian Gonzalez, or even Devon Witherspoon if we moved down a second time.

And plenty of other guys as well, but that is just my point, another trade down would be more appealing rather than making at pick at like 11-14

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On 1/4/2023 at 9:27 AM, StLunatic88 said:

If we are moving outside the Top 8, Im honestly looking to move down twice at that point. I know thats not the most likely thing, but I dont like anyone more than the others when it comes to my draft projections from like 10-25. 

Yes Quentin Johnston is in there, but is he all that much more appealing than Addison or JSN?

Those OLine guys of Skoronski or Broderick Jones are definitely in play, but the way he is likely to fly up boards, is more assets with Darnell Wright more appealing?

And on top of all of that, there are some good CBs I'd drool over putting into this secondary that I think will be the best unit on this team in 2023. Joey Porter, Christian Gonzalez, or even Devon Witherspoon if we moved down a second time.

And plenty of other guys as well, but that is just my point, another trade down would be more appealing rather than making at pick at like 11-14

Yep, Poles will either need to attack to get people who can be franchise faces (IMO it really is Carter or Anderson, then Wilson, Murphy, Bresee with added prospects) or you go for bulk changes with the double trade down. Huge Porter Jr. fan especially.

IND has Buckner, so I would try to get him into a trade package, part of me wants to test LV and see if they could part with Adams or Crosby, or Waller even (id reach out to see if Waller can be had for a mid round pick anyway). IDK if they are going to have a fire sale but if Carr gets tossed I could see Adams in particular being vocal about it. AZ has Hopkins and Humphries but there isn't much more I would want to try to leverage from them. They're tied to Murray so prying Humphries away will likely be impossible. I'm not trading with DET and helping them get their chosen QB without getting Hutchinson (no chance in hell lol), outside of a now-injured Pitts I don't have much I'd want from ATL.

Honestly I wish Chicago could get Adams or Hopkins in a trade scenario where we swap picks and then he officially is traded after June 1st. Taking on more of his contract/costing LV/AZ less dead cap should allow the draft value to go up for Chicago's return. I doubt there is any feasible way to do that but it sounds great. Having a 100% shot at Anderson or Carter AND getting the number one Chicago hasn't had since Marshall? Plus draft assets? Total win.

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2 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

IDK if they are going to have a fire sale but if Carr gets tossed I could see Adams in particular being vocal about it.

I do thin Carr is out, it would be hard for him not to be with the benching. But I think it will be very hard to trade him, not only does everyone know he is out, but not everyone can take on $33m in a trade, especially for Derek Carr's level of play. But for the reason you cite here, I do think the Raiders are a very likely landing spot for either Brady, or more enticing for Adams... Aaron Rodgers

 

I have made it pretty clear that I am not projecting any Player trades with our Top Draft Pick, those are just so complicated, especially if it includes contract stuff, and rarely happen as it is. Its completely fine if you guys want to chase those dreams, but that just seems far fetched to me. I think we will make trades for players, I just dont think it is directly via that Top  4 Pick. 

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2 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

I do thin Carr is out, it would be hard for him not to be with the benching. But I think it will be very hard to trade him, not only does everyone know he is out, but not everyone can take on $33m in a trade, especially for Derek Carr's level of play. But for the reason you cite here, I do think the Raiders are a very likely landing spot for either Brady, or more enticing for Adams... Aaron Rodgers

 

I have made it pretty clear that I am not projecting any Player trades with our Top Draft Pick, those are just so complicated, especially if it includes contract stuff, and rarely happen as it is. Its completely fine if you guys want to chase those dreams, but that just seems far fetched to me. I think we will make trades for players, I just dont think it is directly via that Top  4 Pick. 

Definitely. If I'm Carr I'm telling LV to kiss my *** and refuse to be traded. I'm strolling into free agency and might even take a cheap one year deal to inflate my value and get into a really good spot.

Not gonna lie, I absolutely HATE the idea of Rodgers getting Adams back. Dude has spent his entire career with true number 1s except this year. Jennings/Driver, then got James Jones and Jordy Nelson, the added Cobb while Driver was declining, then Jordy became a stud and they got Adams to develop with him! Like dammit just have a sucky cast for a bit. Ted Thompson screwed the pooch with FA and defense but man he had a killer track record with WRs and OL. If he wasn't defensively incompetent/prideful we might have to have dealt with another 2 Super Bowls or so. 

Its a fun topic to throw out but to me but I think you're right. The players for picks thing would have to happen prior to or after the draft (with 2024 picks). Some players are like Carr and have to trade clauses, some have so much dead cap it would hurt the team not to wait until June 1st to really get serious, and then just valuing the player vs draft pick slot is a pain.

 

Edit - And I'm not saying James Jones was a legit #1, just that that is a hell of a talent to add to an already stacked WR corps.

Edited by Sugashane
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22 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

Definitely. If I'm Carr I'm telling LV to kiss my *** and refuse to be traded. I'm strolling into free agency and might even take a cheap one year deal to inflate my value and get into a really good spot.

Not gonna lie, I absolutely HATE the idea of Rodgers getting Adams back. Dude has spent his entire career with true number 1s except this year. Jennings/Driver, then got James Jones and Jordy Nelson, the added Cobb while Driver was declining, then Jordy became a stud and they got Adams to develop with him! Like dammit just have a sucky cast for a bit. Ted Thompson screwed the pooch with FA and defense but man he had a killer track record with WRs and OL. If he wasn't defensively incompetent/prideful we might have to have dealt with another 2 Super Bowls or so. 

Its a fun topic to throw out but to me but I think you're right. The players for picks thing would have to happen prior to or after the draft (with 2024 picks). Some players are like Carr and have to trade clauses, some have so much dead cap it would hurt the team not to wait until June 1st to really get serious, and then just valuing the player vs draft pick slot is a pain.

I would get on the phone with LV and offer #2 for #9 and DA as a base trade

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Just now, HuskieBear said:

I would get on the phone with LV and offer #2 for #9 and DA as a base trade

Oh I would too. As far as it happening though I just have no clue if it would ever happen.

But having Adams would be incredible for not only Fields but for the franchise. If you can't get a respectable passing attack out of Adams, Mooney, Claypool then you're just not likely a franchise QB and/or playcaller, even with the rushing benefits Fields provides. I mean if Poles traded pre-June 1st I think Chicago would only be on the hook for like $7 mil in 2023 for Adams. That alone means you can really frontload a contract for someone like Payne and Pocic to make their contracts more agreeable with Adams' deal.

Can you imagine being Stroud or Levis when they get drafted though, and finding out Adams was traded away to get them? LMAO. I'd be so pissed.

 

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3 hours ago, Sugashane said:

AZ has Hopkins and Humphries but there isn't much more I would want to try to leverage from them. They're tied to Murray so prying Humphries away will likely be impossible.

I have been looking more into this. Man it would be nice, Nuke is the exact WR we need for Fields. Im worried they are going to lean on the Claypool move at the deadline as the "move for 2023" at the Weapons spot though. Not saying we wont add others (we have to) but that might be seen by them as THE trade made.

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9 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

I have been looking more into this. Man it would be nice, Nuke is the exact WR we need for Fields. Im worried they are going to lean on the Claypool move at the deadline as the "move for 2023" at the Weapons spot though. Not saying we wont add others (we have to) but that might be seen by them as THE trade made.

1000% agree. Hopkins at the X, Claypool the Y, and Mooney the Z would be a fantastic trio. I'd be all for keeping Harry as a back up for the X and Y and Velus working the Y and Z too (imagine he isn't great vs press but that is totally head-cannon, no data to back it up). Then there is time to get a guy developing with Velus to hopefully keep a consistent 1 for Fields for years. 

Hopkins and Adams are the guys who can win the 50/50 balls because with them its more 70/30. Leadership, recognizes coverages and adjusts, great hands, etc.

I've been a Claypool fan since pre-draft but I hope the ceiling is higher than him and Mooney. That would be pretty underwhelming to have two #2s trying to carry a passng attack - again.

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1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

1000% agree. Hopkins at the X, Claypool the Y, and Mooney the Z would be a fantastic trio. I'd be all for keeping Harry as a back up for the X and Y and Velus working the Y and Z too (imagine he isn't great vs press but that is totally head-cannon, no data to back it up). Then there is time to get a guy developing with Velus to hopefully keep a consistent 1 for Fields for years. 

Hopkins and Adams are the guys who can win the 50/50 balls because with them its more 70/30. Leadership, recognizes coverages and adjusts, great hands, etc.

I've been a Claypool fan since pre-draft but I hope the ceiling is higher than him and Mooney. That would be pretty underwhelming to have two #2s trying to carry a passng attack - again.

Trying to work my way through some realistic options here for when we don’t land an AJ Brown this offseason.

If the primary move at WR is a high draft pick with big upside to go with Mooney and Claypool (makes the most sense contract-wise since Mooney and Claypool are both UFA after 2023) then I want to see us sign a top TE in FA to complement that. Gesicki or Schultz lining up regularly as a big slot where they really belong anyway gives you a reliable, athletic, dependable chain mover and seam stretcher while Kmet plays the more traditional TE role. Something like Mooney, Claypool and Downs/Rashee Rice/Hyatt plus a capable vet stopgap WR4 from FA (Marvin Jones?) with Gesicki and Kmet at TE. 

If we can’t add an established WR1 without selling the farm this offseason, and I’m not sure we can, then this is the way I’d like to see us go. I think giving Gesicki or Schultz $12-13M/year makes way more sense than a comparable price tag for Juju or Hardman. Depending on what we get in draft capital from a presumed trade down that rookie WR could maybe be a R1 guy too (the dream is still somehow landing JSN for me). For 2023 that’s a pretty noteworthy jump up in talent, and if the rookie blows up year 1 then it’s a HUGE jump up with potential extended run.

This is key though - for as much as we need a talent infusion at the skill positions on offense for 2023, the moves can’t be just about 2023 which is going to be at least somewhat of a fine line to walk. 

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1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said:

This is key though - for as much as we need a talent infusion at the skill positions on offense for 2023, the moves can’t be just about 2023 which is going to be at least somewhat of a fine line to walk. 

This is a huge issue for me too. Because if Mooney and Claypool don't have respectable numbers then they will likely walk and take a flier elsewhere to try and drive up their values. Mooney has been stuck in an anemic passing attack, Claypool had the corpse of Big Ben and then his meager snap count here. 2023 is going to be key for either to want to return here. Kmet is a FA after next season too, and while he isn't great he has been at least a decent in-line TE.

That would leave us with Velus under contract ATM. Not great. lol

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4 hours ago, Sugashane said:

This is a huge issue for me too. Because if Mooney and Claypool don't have respectable numbers then they will likely walk and take a flier elsewhere to try and drive up their values. Mooney has been stuck in an anemic passing attack, Claypool had the corpse of Big Ben and then his meager snap count here. 2023 is going to be key for either to want to return here. Kmet is a FA after next season too, and while he isn't great he has been at least a decent in-line TE.

That would leave us with Velus under contract ATM. Not great. lol

I’m expecting Mooney gets some kind of extension this year, but if they spend big money on a FA WR I don’t think they will retain Claypool and I doubt Poles is there yet which has me thinking high draft pick is most likely. 

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