Tyreek Hill vs Alec Pierce: Which player is more athletic

[tyler735]

There’s a debate going on in another thread regarding athleticism that started with TJ Hockenson getting called an elite athlete for a TE (lol).
 

Then RAS scores were brought into the mix and this comparison between Hill and Pierce was brought up to show the flaws of using RAS scores to compare players. A poster then stated that “I don’t think it would be too terrible to say that they are comparably athletic”. Curious to see if this is a viewpoint shared by others and an RAS hold more weight to people than other metrics for determining athleticism, such as a guy like Hill being one of the fastest high school sprinters in US history, posting absurd agility times, etc.

[SmittyBacall]

49 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

Curious to see if this is a viewpoint shared by others

I think you already know the answer. This thread is unnecessary.

RAS is a tool (one component) for determining athleticism. If it’s used as the end-all-be-all it’s being used incorrectly. Tape reigns supreme, IMO.

I remember Drew Sample testing as an “elite” athlete via RAS, but when you watch him with pads on it looks like the dude in running in mud.

[Jeezla]

I don't think "more athletic" = "better athlete". Tyreek is more athletic than Michael Jordan, but Michael Jordan was a better athlete.

"More athletic" is the one who tests better in timed drills.
"Better athlete" is the one who would excel in multiple sports. I need to see Tyreek play Alec Pierce 1 on 1 at basketball, watch them throw and hit a baseball, play tennis, kickbox, wrestle, etc to know which one is the better athlete.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Jeezla

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

I think a better comp for Pierce athletically just looking at his RAS would be DK Metcalf, or someone who was regarded as being a big, tall, strong straight-line runner who struggles to change directions. Problem with even that comp is that DK Metcalf is an absolute freak of nature athletically and even Alec Pierce is a step below him.

Tyreek Hill is on another planet in terms of his short-area burst and then top speed to compliment it. It's not even a comparison between him and Pierce.

[seminoles1]

Athleticism is a lot more than just speed and acceleration. I'm not going to pretend to know how Pierce and Hill scored in their respective jump, agility, strength, etc. drills.

It also depends on if you're talking about simple athleticism or more impressive athletically for their sizes. Those can be two different conversations.

Edit: to be clear, from watching them on the football field, I would say Hill is a good bit more athletic.

Edited December 29, 2022 by seminoles1

[INbengalfan]

They had identical broad and high jump performances, and Hill is faster and quicker.  Case closed

[lark25]

I think Hill slightly in an absolute sense but Pierce is ridiculous for his size and overall creates more force 

[tyler735]

9 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

I think you already know the answer. This thread is unnecessary.

RAS is a tool (one component) for determining athleticism. If it’s used as the end-all-be-all it’s being used incorrectly. Tape reigns supreme, IMO.

I remember Drew Sample testing as an “elite” athlete via RAS, but when you watch him with pads on it looks like the dude in running in mud.

Prior to today this is something I thought would be unanimous, but I’ve now seen multiple people try to articulate an argument for Pierce on this forum. So while I know anyone with a real grasp for the game should be voting for Hill. I do find it interesting that some are actually voting for Pierce. Meaning this thread sadly is necessary.

[nagahide13]

On 12/29/2022 at 8:19 PM, tyler735 said:

Prior to today this is something I thought would be unanimous, but I’ve now seen multiple people try to articulate an argument for Pierce on this forum. So while I know anyone with a real grasp for the game should be voting for Hill. I do find it interesting that some are actually voting for Pierce. Meaning this thread sadly is necessary.

Boo. 👎

Edited December 31, 2022 by nagahide13

[nagahide13]

On 12/29/2022 at 10:32 AM, SmittyBacall said:

I think you already know the answer. This thread is unnecessary.

RAS is a tool (one component) for determining athleticism. If it’s used as the end-all-be-all it’s being used incorrectly. Tape reigns supreme, IMO.

I remember Drew Sample testing as an “elite” athlete via RAS, but when you watch him with pads on it looks like the dude in running in mud.

The conversation is about combine and pro-day scores, so were talking about pre-draft. We aren't talking about who is the better player, were talking about whether they had comparable athleticism. RAS is an attempt to measure different components of athleticism. Comparing two players with the same score really isn't out of the question. Tyreek Hill is a great example of RAS being successful. He scored incredibly high and is incredibly athletic.

The crazy thing, they're talking about me and I didn't even make the comparison. They brought up two players with similar scores and asked if they were comparable. I said yes and they started throwing this fit. If you really wanted to discredit RAS, which would be easy, you'd bring up Deebo. Deebo is a clear example of what @SmittyBacallis talking about. Players are crazy different on tape, in pads. He scored a 7.92, which is pretty low. He didn't run well etc and is clearly a better athlete than RAS credits him for.

 

[tyler735]

11 hours ago, nagahide13 said:

They brought up two players with similar scores and asked if they were comparable. I said yes

[nagahide13]

4 hours ago, tyler735 said:

You have nothing to say. Embarrassing.

[nagahide13]

On 12/29/2022 at 6:29 AM, nagahide13 said:

Really depends on what we're talking about. Is Penei Sewell a better athlete than Lebron James? Hill's RAS is lower because he's small. All of his other measurables are off the charts. Pierce is just bigger but (at least according to RAS) has poor agility. They give Pierce a huge jump because of his size. I don't think it would be too terrible to say that they are comparably athletic. Hill is clearly a better player, but athleticism is pretty subjective and clearly is (at best) only one factor in determining how good a player is.

Edited December 31, 2022 by nagahide13

[tyler735]

20 minutes ago, nagahide13 said:

You have nothing to say. Embarrassing.

Lol

[BetterCallSaul]

Clearly it’s Hill. What kind of craziness is this? Hill is in the HOF for athletic traits. Probably will go down as the best pure speed WR to ever do it. Pierce can be in the White Guy HOF for athleticism alongside CMC and Troy Apke…but thats it.