General Offseason Discussion

[NCOUGHMAN]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

Good interview with Dave Ziegler at the senior bowl:

https://theathletic.com/4148060/2023/02/01/raiders-dave-ziegler-free-agency-draft/

Overview with those who don't have the Athletic:

• Thinks the offense needs more consistency on the Oline.
• Thinks the defense suffered from an injury and continuity standpoint.
  • mentions finding a core group of players that fit exactly what they are looking to do
• Mentions homegrown talent 6 times. Major goal is building homegrown talent in the organization. 
  • Speaks to the fact the Raiders are either 2nd or last in the league in homegrown talent and how important that is
  • What is glaring to him is they don't have a young core

 

He gets it. He understands this roster needs a lot of work. They need continuity, homegrown talent to build the core.

 

Doesn't sound like a GM who's about to go on a spending spree. Wants to build consistency and a longterm roster. 

Thinks the draft lacks top end talents in the first round. See a lot of depth, especially on defense through rounds 2-4. Talks about how you can get a QB in different spots outside the top 5.

Then spends $$ on chandler lol 

gonna be interesting tho

agree with home grown talent 

[Geezy]

Zeigler also mentioned we aren’t a couple $15-20million players away. Noted depth was an issue. Specifically on defense. Which we all knew. From the sounds of it, we’ll go value in FA and build through the draft. Which is the right way to go about things. I just don’t know how it aligns with McD being on the hot seat or not. I’m not Josh’s biggest fan but I hope this regime gets another year to fully see this thing through. DZ sounds like he wants to build this thing up the right way, I just hope Mark doesn’t interfere and try a win now approach. 

[BackinBlack]

3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Good interview with Dave Ziegler at the senior bowl:

https://theathletic.com/4148060/2023/02/01/raiders-dave-ziegler-free-agency-draft/

Overview with those who don't have the Athletic:

• Thinks the offense needs more consistency on the Oline.
• Thinks the defense suffered from an injury and continuity standpoint.
  • mentions finding a core group of players that fit exactly what they are looking to do
• Mentions homegrown talent 6 times. Major goal is building homegrown talent in the organization. 
  • Speaks to the fact the Raiders are either 2nd or last in the league in homegrown talent and how important that is
  • What is glaring to him is they don't have a young core

 

He gets it. He understands this roster needs a lot of work. They need continuity, homegrown talent to build the core.

 

Doesn't sound like a GM who's about to go on a spending spree. Wants to build consistency and a longterm roster. 

Thinks the draft lacks top end talents in the first round. See a lot of depth, especially on defense through rounds 2-4. Talks about how you can get a QB in different spots outside the top 5.

Obviously I hope he stays true to what is said here, but very comical he says adding one or 2 15-20 mil players isnt smart . . . 
When last year he added DA and Chandler Jones as our two big moves. 
 

[BackinBlack]

I wonder though if Mark was telling him, we made the playoffs and expect to be back? So DZ felt pressured into win now mode. . . 
maybe the injuries throughout the year, DZ was able to convince MD that depth is the most important thing when trying to build a consistent team

[Geezy]

1 minute ago, BackinBlack said:

Obviously I hope he stays true to what is said here, but very comical he says adding one or 2 15-20 mil players isnt smart . . . 
When last year he added DA and Chandler Jones as our two big moves. 
 

He learned from his mistakes lol when I was reading the article, I was like so the opposite approach didn’t work last year let’s switch it up lol

i hope he stays true to his word. We need depth, injuries happen and we can’t compete if the next man up is straight off the street. 

[big_palooka]

2 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

Obviously I hope he stays true to what is said here, but very comical he says adding one or 2 15-20 mil players isnt smart . . . 
When last year he added DA and Chandler Jones as our two big moves. 
 

He address that to some degree:

Quote

We have a lot of draft picks because we got rid of players, right? We moved on from some players and acquired draft picks. And so, what we didn’t do was make a couple of key moves, which we did some bigger signings or trades in the offseason, and also trade away a bunch of our draft picks and acquire more players. So, that’s the example of trying to work it down the middle is you make a trade for Davante Adams — give him a lot of money — and you make a big free-agent signing in Chandler Jones, but you also move on from a different group of players to acquire picks. That’s kind of the example of trying to work it down the middle for better or for worse. Because everybody wants to kind of go, “Are you going for it or are you blowing the whole thing up?” Obviously, from the fan perspective, that’s one of the prevailing themes that are out there just in the league. And it’s like, “Well, I’m trying to work it down the middle.” Because I think that’s where our team is right now. And I know it’s like it’s a buzzword: There’s always an element of you’re rebuilding different parts of your team.

Talks about working it down the middle. Balancing the short term and long term. Tying back to the lack of homegrown talent and depth.  

[Chali21]

34 minutes ago, Geezy said:

Zeigler also mentioned we aren’t a couple $15-20million players away. Noted depth was an issue. Specifically on defense. Which we all knew. From the sounds of it, we’ll go value in FA and build through the draft. Which is the right way to go about things. I just don’t know how it aligns with McD being on the hot seat or not. I’m not Josh’s biggest fan but I hope this regime gets another year to fully see this thing through. DZ sounds like he wants to build this thing up the right way, I just hope Mark doesn’t interfere and try a win now approach. 

JMD may not be on as hot of a seat as we think. All of Marks coaches have gotten at least 3 years which means that he’s probably got 2 more seasons. 

[true2form]

Sounds like our front office either wasn't on the same page or still isn't on the same page.  I understand the GM has to do what the owner wants and maybe they learned from last year.  However, they started with what was clearly a 3 year window last season and now it's sounding more like a rebuild. It should've been that last year, but what's done is done.

Maybe there is no plan or we are just changing it as we go. Who knows what we will end up with this year. I guess I'm ready for anything at this point.  Like most seasons over the last 20+ years I'll be prepared to be mediocre at best and look for the bright spots when they become known.

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, true2form said:

Sounds like our front office either wasn't on the same page or still isn't on the same page.  I understand the GM has to do what the owner wants and maybe they learned from last year.  However, they started with what was clearly a 3 year window last season and now it's sounding more like a rebuild. It should've been that last year, but what's done is done.

Maybe there is no plan or we are just changing it as we go. Who knows what we will end up with this year. I guess I'm ready for anything at this point.  Like most seasons over the last 20+ years I'll be prepared to be mediocre at best and look for the bright spots when they become known.

It sounds like Mark Davis is more involved in football decisions than he leads on. 

[NYRaider]

11 hours ago, BackinBlack said:

I wonder though if Mark was telling him, we made the playoffs and expect to be back? So DZ felt pressured into win now mode. . . 
maybe the injuries throughout the year, DZ was able to convince MD that depth is the most important thing when trying to build a consistent team

When we hired the new regime Mark was clear that it wasn't a rebuild, it was a "reload." 

[agarcia34]

 

[jimkelly02]

In response to the last handful of posts about Zeigler:

We HAVE to decide whether we’re going on a 2 year run or do we blow it all up, trade everyone of value away and get draft picks to totally rebuild the teams from the ground up.   Zeigler needs to decide on one or the other.

There two major hurdles to keeping a full rebuild from happening effectively:

Mark isn’t patient enough for a correct rebuild and while he may approve it initially half way thru he’ll get impatient and force Big Moves which aren’t in line with the rebuild plan.

Coaching Staff continuity.  McDaniels really had to show major progress as head coach next year and overcome his negative personal image or he’s on the hot seat.  Can McD show enough improvement to keep him through a rebuild?  How many you even launch a full rebuild with a HC and staff that might not be around in a year or two?

If we were going to rebuild it should have been done last year.

[NYRaider]

29 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

If we were going to rebuild it should have been done last year.

Hindsight is 20-20 though, we went 10-7 in 2021 and we should've blown it up to rebuild? 

[Darbsk]

On 2/2/2023 at 12:04 PM, big_palooka said:

Good interview with Dave Ziegler at the senior bowl:

https://theathletic.com/4148060/2023/02/01/raiders-dave-ziegler-free-agency-draft/

Overview with those who don't have the Athletic:

• Thinks the offense needs more consistency on the Oline.
• Thinks the defense suffered from an injury and continuity standpoint.
  • mentions finding a core group of players that fit exactly what they are looking to do
• Mentions homegrown talent 6 times. Major goal is building homegrown talent in the organization. 
  • Speaks to the fact the Raiders are either 2nd or last in the league in homegrown talent and how important that is
  • What is glaring to him is they don't have a young core

 

He gets it. He understands this roster needs a lot of work. They need continuity, homegrown talent to build the core.

 

Doesn't sound like a GM who's about to go on a spending spree. Wants to build consistency and a longterm roster. 

Thinks the draft lacks top end talents in the first round. See a lot of depth, especially on defense through rounds 2-4. Talks about how you can get a QB in different spots outside the top 5.

Interesting. I think he’s correct there’s a lot of depth at that round 2 to 4 range on defence, maybe a trade back is in the pipe work?? Wouldn't be against that at all though CB looks strong in the first round.

[Darbsk]

19 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

In response to the last handful of posts about Zeigler:

We HAVE to decide whether we’re going on a 2 year run or do we blow it all up, trade everyone of value away and get draft picks to totally rebuild the teams from the ground up.   Zeigler needs to decide on one or the other.

There two major hurdles to keeping a full rebuild from happening effectively:

Mark isn’t patient enough for a correct rebuild and while he may approve it initially half way thru he’ll get impatient and force Big Moves which aren’t in line with the rebuild plan.

Coaching Staff continuity.  McDaniels really had to show major progress as head coach next year and overcome his negative personal image or he’s on the hot seat.  Can McD show enough improvement to keep him through a rebuild?  How many you even launch a full rebuild with a HC and staff that might not be around in a year or two?

If we were going to rebuild it should have been done last year.

First point, you mention McDaniels on the hot seat but isn’t that just supposition? David has shown patience with other coaches, what evidence is there for that?

Secondly you specifically mention Mark isn’t patient enough for a correct rebuild but where is the evidence of that? He allowed a full on rebuild from Gruden plus Reggie McKenzie completely tore everything down and built back so there is precedent for that. He is quoted as saying this is not a rebuild but a retool and maybe specifically he says this as we’ve effectively had two rebuilds under him already 😂😂