Dak for Cleveland's 1st.

[5x10]

1 minute ago, Dallas94Ware said:

Uhh, we have seen him play like last year as recently as a month ago. And to think he will always play poorly after a bad game is as stupid as thinking he will always play as great as he did after a great game. Or to think that in only his second season, he will never learn or improve ever again.

Do you have the mind of a goldfish? They live in five second intervals. If the fish is hungry, he thinks he has been hungry his whole life. If he is sad, he thinks he has been sad his whole life. Etc. Kind of reminds me of your logic here..he didnt play well when you took all his components away from him, therefore he will never play well again? Yeah...goldfish.

Geez, what’s with the insults?

And to his play a month ago, do you mean when he had the best back in the league behind him?

is dak really that hamstrung to fall apart with no zeke?

how about he can’t effectively pass the ball when there isn’t 8 men in the box.

keep on living in the past , current dak is garbage

[Dallas94Ware]

16 minutes ago, 5x10 said:

Geez, what’s with the insults?

And to his play a month ago, do you mean when he had the best back in the league behind him?

is dak really that hamstrung to fall apart with no zeke?

how about he can’t effectively pass the ball when there isn’t 8 men in the box.

keep on living in the past , current dak is garbage

Do you remember second year Drew Brees? Second year Peyton Manning? Not very good bodies of work, either. But they got better.

And Brees had LT. Peyton had Faulk then James. Damn good backs, even two HOFers with the third debateable. 

Im not putting Dak in their category yet by any means. Im using this example to taper your expectations and overreactions to every single.throw and game you see. View the big picture.

Dak, for one, is not just without Zeke either. He was without his blindside protection and the man stepping up there played the worst performance by a LT i have ever seen. Not the worst LT, because im not oblivous to when he played well previously, but the worst PERFORMANCE ive seen. He is without Dez, essentially, as Dez plays about as well as Patrick Crayton...maybe even worse right now. His receivers wont separate, either. Any of them. Zero separation play after play.

Then the defense. Sure, kept them in the game early, but when they give up 30 pts in a half...your young QB with a struggling cast now is forced to carry more of a load than he should. Which in turn makes him struggle.

But does that mean he sucks? No. That is an overreactionary statement that ignores how great he played even just 4 weeks ago. And no it wasnt just cause of Zeke. Zeke wasnt the one scrambling from 3 guys and delivering an accurate ball on the move for a score, was he?

Dont let some bad plays be taken out of context and erase everything else hes done from your mind. Otherwise...yeah...goldfish.

[5x10]

33 minutes ago, Dallas94Ware said:

Do you remember second year Drew Brees? Second year Peyton Manning? Not very good bodies of work, either. But they got better.

And Brees had LT. Peyton had Faulk then James. Damn good backs, even two HOFers with the third debateable. 

Im not putting Dak in their category yet by any means. Im using this example to taper your expectations and overreactions to every single.throw and game you see. View the big picture.

Dak, for one, is not just without Zeke either. He was without his blindside protection and the man stepping up there played the worst performance by a LT i have ever seen. Not the worst LT, because im not oblivous to when he played well previously, but the worst PERFORMANCE ive seen. He is without Dez, essentially, as Dez plays about as well as Patrick Crayton...maybe even worse right now. His receivers wont separate, either. Any of them. Zero separation play after play.

Then the defense. Sure, kept them in the game early, but when they give up 30 pts in a half...your young QB with a struggling cast now is forced to carry more of a load than he should. Which in turn makes him struggle.

But does that mean he sucks? No. That is an overreactionary statement that ignores how great he played even just 4 weeks ago. And no it wasnt just cause of Zeke. Zeke wasnt the one scrambling from 3 guys and delivering an accurate ball on the move for a score, was he?

Dont let some bad plays be taken out of context and erase everything else hes done from your mind. Otherwise...yeah...goldfish.

Lmao, manning and brees?

try rg3 and kapernick, rookies that did really well their first year or so and then fell off, which is where dak is seems be headed

less than 200 yards passing in 50% of the games this year, protecting for 8 games

no passing game 

defense? How are you going to make excuses for dak with defense?

how about we talk about daks inaccuracy?

hi passes, low passes

daks inconsistency...bu..bu..but he has a good game a month ago

daks inability to throw with anticipation or throwing a receiver open?

theres a reason he was a 4th round pick , he didn’t have the passing resume in college to translate into the nfl and with more and more games, it’s starting to show

listen, as a life long cowboy fan, I hope you’re right. I hope dak gets close to last years stellar play or can recreate it year over year.

im just not confident he can

and its time to change the tampon bud

[Dallas94Ware]

44 minutes ago, 5x10 said:

Lmao, manning and brees?

try rg3 and kapernick, rookies that did really well their first year or so and then fell off, which is where dak is seems be headed

less than 200 yards passing in 50% of the games this year, protecting for 8 games

no passing game 

defense? How are you going to make excuses for dak with defense?

how about we talk about daks inaccuracy?

hi passes, low passes

daks inconsistency...bu..bu..but he has a good game a month ago

daks inability to throw with anticipation or throwing a receiver open?

theres a reason he was a 4th round pick , he didn’t have the passing resume in college to translate into the nfl and with more and more games, it’s starting to show

listen, as a life long cowboy fan, I hope you’re right. I hope dak gets close to last years stellar play or can recreate it year over year.

im just not confident he can

and its time to change the tampon bud

And there was a reason Brady was in the sixth, and Favre to the second, Wilson the third..none of that matters. Ever. 

Do you watch any other games? All Qbs miss passes. You just scrutinize Daks misses because the team is losing, and most.fans of this team are notorious for overreactions to every little thing.

Defense...plays a HUGE role in a Qbs career, btw. Playing from behind 20 or playing from ahead by 3 or 10 or even behind by 7 creates very different opportunities for a Qb. When behind big, you have to.throw more, which means more mistakes and misses. You also have to force more throws up field, which leads to turnivers. See: Tony Romos 8-8, 8-8, 8-8 years. If you dont understand this simple concept we are done here. If you do, lets move on to a little more x and o concept to understand thw difference between rg3, kaep and Dak.

The big difference between griffin and kaepernick, as it comes to Dak, is pretty obvious if you understand the mechanics of an offense - 

Griffin ran Baylors offense. In the pros. No real play calling with a simple read of run vs pass, with an.option to keep it on the run. A complete gimmick offense. May as well have been the Black Knights of Army out there once defenses played the Skins like an actual college team instead of a pro team. Griffin could not throw well even in college. Gimmick over, career over.

Kaepernick was similar, however he actually had some ability to throw...to a few routes. Namely slants, posts and corners. That wont get you by in the NFL. Combined with the simple collegiate offensive style he used, which was as Griffins, a read of run vs pass with an option to keep it himself, he flaked out once the gimmick was over.

Was Daks first year a.gimmick? You could make the argument it was. But if you look at his system, it was not. He actually had drop back pocket based passing with a progression system of x to z (x being the leftmost receiver, the z being the right most, with the Y falling between) like a true pro quarterback. He had option based route concepts included, which requires an understanding of coverage concepts to make the same diagnosis of coverage as your receiver, who will adjust his route accordingly and expect the QB to make the correct read and throw also.

Griffin and Kaep did none of that. Their most effective points were big runs and gains by foot. Daks best points were big throws.down field where he ran for about the same yardage as Quincy Carter (usually as an escape or the rare occasion of a QB keeper/read option) did moreso than the impressive totals of Kaep or Griffin.

The differences are huge. Stop letting a few bad games.over shadow and erase everything you know from Dak. We see this EVERYWEEK with dallas fans on this forum - a big win, they will be in the SB, they rule, its the best team ever. A crummy loss and everyones a turd, they need firing, trade everyone, they stink, etc. Dont be like them. Dont be a goldfish.

 

[El Ramster]

Trade him because right now we were dem boys. 

 

But seriously though, Dak needs Zeke. He's not that type of QB were he can hard carry. 

He needs an elite cast around him.

[Dallas94Ware]

1 minute ago, El ramster said:

Trade him because right now we were dem boys. 

 

But seriously though, Dak needs Zeke. He's not that type of QB were he can hard carry. 

He needs an elite cast around him.

He isnt RIGHT NOW. 

The guys in his second year. Wentz isnt carrying the Eagles. Second yr Peyton didnt carry the Colts. Second yr Brees didnt carry the Chargersm Second yr Brady actually was quite atrocious despite winning the SB the year before.

Let the guy grow, man. Damn you guys are ravenous

[5x10]

Dak playing that pro style qb game, for less than 200 yards a game

dont worry guys, he’s good, just look at his rookie year

dont ever forget his rookie year

[Dallas94Ware]

2 minutes ago, 5x10 said:

Dak playing that pro style qb game, for less than 200 yards a game

dont worry guys, he’s good, just look at his rookie year

You are intentionally ignoring the context in which his stats are in, and ignoring the other facts associated with the struggles.

Roy Williams had 5 INTs in a season, Terrence Newman had 1. Does that make Roy better in coverage? No. It means Roy was thrown at 25 times a game cause he sucked in coverage, while Newman was hardly thrown at because he had his man covered almost every play. 

Context is everything.

[5x10]

7 minutes ago, Dallas94Ware said:

You are intentionally ignoring the context in which his stats are in, and ignoring the other facts associated with the struggles.

Roy Williams had 5 INTs in a season, Terrence Newman had 1. Does that make Roy better in coverage? No. It means Roy was thrown at 25 times a game cause he sucked in coverage, while Newman was hardly thrown at because he had his man covered almost every play. 

Context is everything.

What I see on the tv screen is everything

dak didn’t have issues with any of his receivers last year, this year, none of them seem to be able to get open

did they all regress as a unit?

or is it the lines fault

or the defense, who we consistently hold to 10 point at half, yet the offense can’t ever get up on them or can’t produce any second half points?

always someone else’s fault except dak.

 dak has trouble finding windows when theres not 8 men in the box to stop zeke, last 3 games are evidence of that

again, what about his accuracy? He was horrible the whole game against the Eagles. Even had games last year like that but would get his stuff together and pull it out in the second half.

our defense sucks, needs a ball controls to  minimize the plays against them. Need a qb that can effectively move the offense down the field, not throwing 4 yd passes to the TE on 3rd and 6

 

dak is becoming consistently inconsistent and consistently is everything in the nfl 

 

[Dallas94Ware]

4 minutes ago, 5x10 said:

What I see on the tv screen is everything

dak didn’t have issues with any of his receivers last year, this year, none of them seem to be able to get open

did they all regress as a unit?

or is it the lines fault

or the defense, who we consistently hold to 10 point at half, yet the offense can’t ever get up on them or can’t produce any second half points?

always someone else’s fault except dak.

 dak has trouble finding windows when theres not 8 men in the box to stop zeke, last 3 games are evidence of that

again, what about his accuracy? He was horrible the whole game against the Eagles. Even had games last year like that but would get his stuff together and pull it out in the second half.

our defense sucks, needs a ball controls to  minimize the plays against them. Need a qb that can effectively move the offense down the field, not throwing 4 yd passes to the TE on 3rd and 6

 

dak is becoming consistently inconsistent and consistently is everything in the nfl 

 

What you see on the tv screen is 1/11th of the story. They make it all about the QB. It is not.

They rarely show you any routes or route combinations. 

They never show you defensive alignments or coverages, ever.

There is so much context you miss out on by watching only the Qb like tv cameras show you.

Dak wasnt inconsistent all last year and most of this year. Missing a few throws isnt inconsistency, its normal - Watch how many misfires the greatest guys miss on. It happens.

Hes had a.rough stretch with his cast injured or missing. Lets not forget either that half of his INTs is bad, bad, BAD receiver play causing them. Hes also been roughed up badly - you cant make good throws with your butt in the turf.

There are so many factors involved in this that to point the finger at one person is completely blind. Dak, like everyone, has a part in this failure. But to point at just one person and say see he sucks, see he wont be good, is literally the dumbest thing any fan can do because there are 10 other people on the field with him. 

Zeke picks up that blitz and gives Dak time. Tyron doesnt allow Clayborne to even sniff Dak. Lee doesnt miss Ajayi through the hole like that. Zeke doesnt get brought down by a shoe tackle on his way to pay dirt. Old Dez slips that corner on the bubble. Old Dez catches that end zone fade with or without that corner in his face. Cole last year gets into the zone gap and picks up that first on 3rd and 8. Lee doesnt allow Philly to eat the clock on the ground and score 30pts before Dak can answer back.

There are so many factors you arent including. You are ignoring not just 10 others on offense but 11 more on defense even. You are completely blind to the context in which he has had to play and by saying "you believe the tv" is probably the answer as to why you are blind to the rest of it.

Go get All22or gamepass - or borrow a buddys, or use any numerous methods of downloading, to see the whole field or study a coaches angle of the game - you will realize Dak is playing a game of solitaire without a couple of deuces, and you are getting mad that he cant finish the hand.

[5x10]

Yeah, I need the all 22 to see dak throw it at Bryant’s shoelaces

i also need it to see him throw it short on 3rd while missing a wide open receiver 

all the greats are greats because they consistently make great plays, even with injured players out

sure they miss some every game but it’s also countered with good play

where has daks good play been?

best play last week was a slant he hit Williams on. That’s it

[DaBoys]

19 minutes ago, 5x10 said:

 

where has daks good play been?

best play last week was a slant he hit Williams on. That’s it

Nah it was that read option that he took to the house. It got called back for a Tyron hold, but Dak would have scored with or without the hold.

 

In fact, the read option has been one of Daks biggest weapons this year... 

[DaBoys]

Is there anyone here who believes Dak is purely a victim of bad circumstances?  That he is an elite QB that is just in a terrible situation with injuries and crap coaching? Last year is proof that this year is not at all his doing or a reflection of his current skill level?

 

This thread was made to call people out so let's hear it from you guys. D94W do you feel this way? Anyone else? Because you know... If Dak throws 300/3/0 next week you guys will be trampling each other to come on here and write I told you so. 

 

Who thinks Dak is above the disaster? The diamond in the rough?

[Northland]

8 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

Is there anyone here who believes Dak is purely a victim of bad circumstances?  That he is an elite QB that is just in a terrible situation with injuries and crap coaching? Last year is proof that this year is not at all his doing or a reflection of his current skill level?

 

This thread was made to call people out so let's hear it from you guys. D94W do you feel this way? Anyone else? Because you know... If Dak throws 300/3/0 next week you guys will be trampling each other to come on here and write I told you so. 

 

Who thinks Dak is above the disaster? The diamond in the rough?

I'm a Dak fan.  Read my post on page 1 of this thread.  Im not an X's and O's guy.  I believe in the quality of character he has demonstrated in his young life.  He will overcome.  This has been a rough year for the whole team.  Generally speaking I think QB's get too much credit and blame.  For me this team has no fire and that points to the HC and staff.  One playoff win in 7.5 years doesn't cut it for me.  I'm not on the Marvin Lewis plan.  Let's get some fresh blood on the sidelines and a veteran backup QB who can mentor Dak.  I think that's an important piece that we don't have this year, a veteran to help Dak read, develop, and progress.  He's only in year two remember.

[Dallas94Ware]

29 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

Nah it was that read option that he took to the house. It got called back for a Tyron hold, but Dak would have scored with or without the hold.

 

In fact, the read option has been one of Daks biggest weapons this year... 

Its been sold hard for sure, even fooled the camera man a time or two! Theres no doubt about how effective its been and how much of a boost its been when we needed a spark. But its not the primary part of his game like you saw from griffin and kaep.