Dak for Cleveland's 1st.

[Dallas94Ware]

29 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

Is there anyone here who believes Dak is purely a victim of bad circumstances?  That he is an elite QB that is just in a terrible situation with injuries and crap coaching? Last year is proof that this year is not at all his doing or a reflection of his current skill level?

 

This thread was made to call people out so let's hear it from you guys. D94W do you feel this way? Anyone else? Because you know... If Dak throws 300/3/0 next week you guys will be trampling each other to come on here and write I told you so. 

 

Who thinks Dak is above the disaster? The diamond in the rough?

I have said it falls on him as much as anyone else. I dont feel he is elite. And i dont feel he cannot or wont become elite. What I do feel is that he gets far too much of the blame, and every bad throw is over scrutinized as "proof" that he sucks.

I have been all over this forum and the other one trying temper expectations on both high ends of the spectrum. He is NOT an elite almighty HoF shoe in. But he certainly does not suck, either.

Both over reactions need to meet in the middle and realize this is a good player, a special kind of player, in only his second year at the hardest position in sports, playing without some key pieces to his puzzle. And when the puzzle pieces are there, not every good throw is because he is amazing. Sometimes defenses miss coverage or receivers make great catches. Not every touchdown is him being a golden child. Sometimes that line bought him time or made an easy lane. Theres 22 starters on that team, but too many people fixate on only one player. People do this about Wentz often. And Brady. And others. Bypass the context and the larger picture snd fixate on the single entity.

Also, the other team takes the field, too.

Sometimes, that other team can make good plays also. Not every given up TD is because your team sucks. Sometimes that other offense made a good play. Sometimes, that other defense made a great play, your runner doesnt suck because he got tackled for loss. 

People bypass all of this and fixate on singular thought processes (ie, its the Qb) but in doing so, they neglect the so many other aspects of the game that are such a big part of what makes this sport so damn great.

[DaBoys]

18 minutes ago, Dallas94Ware said:

Its been sold hard for sure, even fooled the camera man a time or two! Theres no doubt about how effective its been and how much of a boost its been when we needed a spark. But its not the primary part of his game like you saw from griffin and kaep.

About a quarter of his game. I believe 5 of his 21 TDs come from that play. Maybe one was just a regular QB draw but almost all of his big run plays/TDs come from the read option. 5 ÷ 21 = 0.238.

 0.238 × 100 = 23.8%

 

Without that 1/4 his stats look really really bad. But screw it. It's working. 

[Dallas94Ware]

11 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

About a quarter of his game. I believe 5 of his 21 TDs come from that play. Maybe one was just a regular QB draw but almost all of his big run plays/TDs come from the read option. 5 ÷ 21 = 0.238.

 0.238 × 100 = 23.8%

 

Without that 1/4 his stats look really really bad. But screw it. It's working. 

About a quarter? Fair enough. But its still only a small portion of his playcalls. It is often called in the red zone or on third and short. But overall I dont think a read option is a big part of the offense. Scoring 23% percent of his scores on the play doesnt mean they run the play anywhere near that percentage of the time

[DaBoys]

6 minutes ago, Dallas94Ware said:

About a quarter? Fair enough. But its still only a small portion of his playcalls. It is often called in the red zone or on third and short. But overall I dont think a read option is a big part of the offense. Scoring 23% percent of his scores on the play doesnt mean they run the play anywhere near that percentage of the time

Right but in the red zone. 3rd downs those are critical situations where teams go the bread and butter. For Dak its read option or 50/50 to dez if they take Beasley away. Not saying they call it 25% but that it's accounted for 25% of his scores and is often used in crucial situations.

[DaBoys]

The read option has been huge for Dak this year.

[TheRealMcCoy]

On 11/23/2017 at 5:46 PM, flyingmonkey30 said:

If Cleveland is willing to trade away from a top quarterback for yours (and they've done extensive work on these guys already, I would assume), what does that say about your options?

That your options are probably pretty great?

Browns suck at drafting.

[plan9misfit]

3 hours ago, DaBoys said:

Is there anyone here who believes Dak is purely a victim of bad circumstances?  That he is an elite QB that is just in a terrible situation with injuries and crap coaching? Last year is proof that this year is not at all his doing or a reflection of his current skill level?

 

This thread was made to call people out so let's hear it from you guys. D94W do you feel this way? Anyone else? Because you know... If Dak throws 300/3/0 next week you guys will be trampling each other to come on here and write I told you so. 

 

Who thinks Dak is above the disaster? The diamond in the rough?

I think it’s a combination of a few factors: Dak is clearly not ready for a full playbook and struggles making reads and throws downfield unless the WR is literally wide open. Garrett is a garbage head coach who has no idea how to make an adjustment to a game plan when things don’t go perfectly, and Wade Wilson can’t develop a QB to save his life. 

[DaBoys]

If our General Manager is nuts, our coach is clueless, our quarter back is crap, and our OLine depleted, If our LBs can't tackle and our secondary can't play, why the hell aren't we 0-11? 

 

Something has to be good about this team. What is it?

[WizardHawk]

7 hours ago, DaBoys said:

Something has to be good about this team. What is it?

There is a lot of good. Plenty of teams would be thrilled to have 3 All-Pro OL, Zeke, Dak, L. Collins, M. Collins, Dez, and the young secondary....it's just damn near impossible to see that thru massive **** storm of multiple games this season. 

 

[Danger]

I can't imagine Cleveland wanting to trade likely the #1 overall pick for Dak. Especially given how he's played of late. It doesn't work that way, you can't sell low for such a valuable asset.

[Danger]

Would like some feedback on this from the lot of you.

[Rtnldave]

21 hours ago, Dallas94Ware said:

He isnt RIGHT NOW. 

The guys in his second year. Wentz isnt carrying the Eagles. Second yr Peyton didnt carry the Colts. Second yr Brees didnt carry the Chargersm Second yr Brady actually was quite atrocious despite winning the SB the year before.

Let the guy grow, man. Damn you guys are ravenous

Ahh, Wentz IS carrying the Iggles. If you take him out of the game you will quickly see happen to them what is happening to us right now. Foles is a turn over machine and defenses will load up to stop the run, their defense will be on the field all day and tire and they will get blown out in the 2nd half of games because of it. Wentz IS the Iggles now like Zeke is the Cowboys.

[Calvert28]

4 hours ago, Danger said:

I can't imagine Cleveland wanting to trade likely the #1 overall pick for Dak. Especially given how he's played of late. It doesn't work that way, you can't sell low for such a valuable asset.

I counter with why would we trade a pro-bowl starting QB for a unproven prospect? We have seen what Dak can do with the right supporting cast. And it's true for any player. No one can win with a bad offense and defense. 

So if Cleveland wanted to trade their entire draft for Dak I would think about and MAY take it. But finding starter quality QB's is hard enough. I mean you guys had to give up a King's Ransom to get yours. 

[resilient part 2]

On 11/24/2017 at 11:38 PM, DaBoys said:

Dak hasn't earned the right to be insulted with an RG3 comment. He is a 2nd year pro not a seasoned vet. I guess you forget just how frightening RG3 was his rookie year. When it is no longer a possibility to have an RG3 career then it is an insult. Until then, it's just another doubt that he has to disprove. Not an insult. 

 

Even "okay" QBs like Dalton, or Cam  who have played several years, can have the right to be insulted by an RG3 comparison. But not young guys like Dak or Watson with only an incredible rookie year to their name. 

 

RG3 is a result for Dak that neither you or I want. But until it's impossible for him to have a similar career, it can't be an insult. In fact, at this point in their respective careers RG3 was arguably more successful than Dak. Statistically both had great rookie years. Both won rookie of the year. Dak was a 4th rounder and RG3 was compensated as a 2nd overall pick. 

RG3 rookie year:

Yards: 4,015

TDs: 27

INTs: 5

 

Dak rookie year:

Yards: 3,949

TDs: 29

INTs: 4

 

RG3 did it with a rookie RB as well, but his was Alfred Morris, and Daks was Zeke. Hopefully by now you have a good understanding of both backs talent level. RG3 wasn't playing behind 3 all pros either but that's all besides the point.

 

RG3 year 2 (13 games)

Yards: 3,692

TDs: 16

INTs: 12

 

Dak year 2 (11 games)

Yards: 2,565

TDs: 21

INTs: 9

 

Dak will need to average 563.5 yards over the next two games just to match RG3s yards total in his 2nd year; aka the year he "busted."

In fact the only real advantage Dak has over RG3 at this point in his career is rushing TDs believe it or not. Kind of a weird leg to have up on RG3, but Daks had 6 rushing TDs this year and RG3 got none his 2nd year. Total passing TDs are Dak 39 RG3 36. With RG3 having more yards. So pretty even through the air. 

 

Again, I don't want RG3 to be the Dak comparison but to say that it's insulting to point out the(still very real) possibility... Idk. The numbers are near identical, so the only thing you have to argue is that you "feel" it's wrong. At this point he has a better chance to be RG3 than Tom Brady.  But I'd say his current trend is for someone in the middle like a poor mans Cam Newton.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, this is the first chance I have to get back to my questions/comments and I see a lot has transpired since. To Daboys. First off, if the basis of your argument is that any 2nd year QB can not be ruled out from comparison because he has played only 2 years (then fine) I can't argue that. BUT stats aside (which have been close ) greater things IMO for what makes this comparison between Dak and RG3 "off" (for a better word than insulting) is the fact that Dak has shown the complete package of what I consider, the makings of a franchise QB. Toughness, leadership, humility, likeability, poise, accountability and the ability to RISE UP when the game/or life has challenged him.  Things RKG3 has never shown but rather, in time seems to have proven in lacking. Never mind including on the field abilities such as not being one dimensional overall (gimmicky etc.) 

Let's also remember that while RKG3 had the pressure of being a top 3 pick, his team vested so heavily in him, that he early on he NEVER had to look over his shoulder. It was he team and his team almost no mater what. Dak on the other hand, it was always, just drive the BUS till Romo came back, don't blow it. Then  Romo came back. In the mean time, when it became apparent that Dak had accomplished far more than anyone expected. He had to deal with a QB controversy (which still has people second guessing today) Every little off pass, there was someone saying Get Romo back in. We would be better with Romo. Romo would have made that throw. And I am not talking about posters on here, but rather from both an external and probably an internal level. Like if there wasn't enough pressure being a rookie QB on a high profile team with grand expectations, but a team that has/had a QB of great stature sitting and lurking in the "wings" All, Dak managed to do was win OROY (even more amazing that this team had ZEKE) and even was in the MVP conversation. Then again in the playoffs, there were doubters and again, Dak's level of play continued to rise, despite the doubters. Damn the game vs GB was a game, we all know, Dallas could/should have won. 

This season Dak started out good again and up until a few weeks ago, was at least playing above average ball. This on a team that, as clear as day IMO was far from a team without major problems.

The strength of the team O-line regressed, even before the injuries, then went full catastrophic without T Smith. (6 sacks by a single player in one game????) 

The running game with Zeke declined, Witten looks older/slower. Dez DOES not separate well and T Will is like we should have expected, mediocre at best.  

the DEFENSE is atrocious overall. The Dallas D-line hasn't recorded a single holding penalty in 8 games, 8 games?? Is that a record??? (Conspiracy theory or not!)  

Lbs suck without Lee.

DBs , can't cover! 

I Haven't even mentioned the feeble minded, can't make adjustment, coaching that has ridiculed this team with horrific second half results. You guys can look up the stats, I am sure they back me up on this. All this yet somehow points to Dak to be called, average, Bad or Not an NFL QB, blah blah blah....

To be clear, however, I am in no way, trying to vindicate Dak, from any blame. He has to play/pass better. He has NOT been at his best. BUT in no means, does he deserve some of the harsh and overall over the top brutal negativity which he has garnered after this 3 game stretch. But I guess it shouldn't surprise me either. 

But what won't surprise me, is that Dak, because of his mental, physical and spiritually fortitude, will one day overcome. Again. regardless of the skeptics.

 

 

 

 

[DaBoys]

8 minutes ago, resilient part 2 said:

Ok, this is the first chance I have to get back to my questions/comments and I see a lot has transpired since. To Daboys. First off, if the basis of your argument is that any 2nd year QB can not be ruled out from comparison because he has played only 2 years (then fine) I can't argue that.