OL Talk

[Trojan]

23 minutes ago, RedandPewterReturns said:

Jaelyn Duncan is going to be this class' version of Christian Derrishaw. He will be taken in the top 25 somewhere to play LT. 

He has athleticism and size, but he lacks technique in a big way. He looks way more like a 5th or 6th round long shot that could latch on to a starting job if he takes to coaching and has opportunity. More like Braxton Jones with the Bears imo. Christian Darrisaw was a blue chip prospect that had a core injury.

edit: Josh Jones would be a little more refined version of Duncan imo and he was a 3rd, that has also done fairly well once opportunity met taking to coaching in year 3.

Edited January 14, 2023 by Trojan

[RedandPewterReturns]

18 minutes ago, Trojan said:

He has athleticism and size, but he lacks technique in a big way. He looks way more like a 5th or 6th round long shot that could latch on to a starting job if he takes to coaching and has opportunity. More like Braxton Jones with the Bears imo. Christian Darrisaw was a blue chip prospect that had a core injury.

edit: Josh Jones would be a little more refined version of Duncan imo and he was a 3rd, that has also done fairly well once opportunity met taking to coaching in year 3.

You're telling me you can't teach technique to a guy who possesses the god given talent he already has? The determination on where he'll go will be in the interview process and mental evaluation. If he's coachable - he's going first round. Not every prospect receives NFL development coaching at the collegiate level .

[Trojan]

4 hours ago, RedandPewterReturns said:

You're telling me you can't teach technique to a guy who possesses the god given talent he already has? The determination on where he'll go will be in the interview process and mental evaluation. If he's coachable - he's going first round. Not every prospect receives NFL development coaching at the collegiate level .

That makes him a draftable prospect. First round guys typically have both talent and technique.
 

Just one rep, but that hand placement is a failure grade and his kick step is too narrow to not have an immediate next step. He can move and he can potentially develop, but other great athletes that need work when they go too high bust out. Guys like Austin Jackson with the Dolphins, maybe you could use Cam Erving as an example as well. You need more refinement imo to go that high it can't just all be potential.

[INbengalfan]

23 hours ago, Ozzy said:

With the addition of Broderick Jones that greatly helps the OT group and gives a legit LT option.  Maybe it is just me though but I view him as the best LT potentially in the draft now.  Paris Johnson I view more as a guard but who knows what happens and O'Neal I view more as a RT.  Wypler addition also adds a lot to the depth of the group overall.  I still say in terms of elite OT depth 2024 should be a better class than this year but this year has a decent amount of guys who could become good players but more than a few might switch positions in the NFL.  

 

 

LT
Broderick Jones Georgia RS SOPH
Paris Johnson Jr Ohio State JR
Raiqwon O'Neal UCLA RS
Braeden Daniels Utah RS JR
Asim Richards UNC
Tyler Steen Alabama RS
Jordan McFadden Clemson RS

 

RT
Broderick Jones Georgia RS SOPH
Peter Skoronski Northwestern JR
Dawand Jones Ohio State
Jarrett Patterson Notre Dame RS
Darnell Wright Tennessee
Raiqwon O'Neal UCLA RS
Braeden Daniels Utah RS JR
Alex Palczewski Illinois
John Ojukwu Boise State RS
Carter Warren Pitt RS
Jaelyn Duncan Maryland RS

 

OG
Jarrett Patterson Notre Dame RS
Peter Skoronski Northwestern JR
Paris Johnson Jr Ohio State JR
Darnell Wright Tennessee
O'Cyrus Torrence Florida
Andrew Vorhees USC
Alex Palczewski Illinois
John Ojukwu Boise State RS
Jaelyn Duncan Maryland RS
Emil Ekiyor Jr Alabama RS
Cody Mauch NDSU
Nick Broeker Ole Miss
KT Leveston Kansas State RS
Jon Gaines UCLA RS

 

C
Jarrett Patterson Notre Dame RS
Olusegun Oluwatimi Michigan
John Michael Schmitz Minnesota RS
Luke Wypler Ohio State RS SOPH
Ricky Stromberg Arkansas
Alex Forsyth Oregon
Juice Scruggs Penn State RS

 

Anton??

[RedandPewterReturns]

15 hours ago, Trojan said:

That makes him a draftable prospect. First round guys typically have both talent and technique.
 

Just one rep, but that hand placement is a failure grade and his kick step is too narrow to not have an immediate next step. He can move and he can potentially develop, but other great athletes that need work when they go too high bust out. Guys like Austin Jackson with the Dolphins, maybe you could use Cam Erving as an example as well. You need more refinement imo to go that high it can't just all be potential.

Film Room 120 - Jaelyn Duncan - Bing video

Pretty Sure Aiden Hutchinson was a first round pick. Top 2 actually. He displays first round talent. 

[jebrick]

17 hours ago, Trojan said:

That makes him a draftable prospect. First round guys typically have both talent and technique.
 

About 10-15 guys taken in the 1st round have talent and technique.  The rest have athletic ability and potential.  Most of the CBs and WR drafted do not know "their techniques".  That is why good route runners in college make an impact early.  The rest have to, hopefully, learn it.

I agree that makes Duncan draftable.  Now at OL, 1st rounders SHOULD have good technique.  Not all of them do and those should be drafted later but teams take changes on potential all the time.

[Scoundrel]

Duncan will also be 23 in July. Which isn’t bad for an oline rookie but if I am taking a 23 year old OT I expect their technique to be more developed as opposed to a 21 year old.

[Trojan]

2 hours ago, RedandPewterReturns said:

Film Room 120 - Jaelyn Duncan - Bing video

Pretty Sure Aiden Hutchinson was a first round pick. Top 2 actually. He displays first round talent. 

In that video if you mute the guy and just watch the clips he posted. Duncan is against Ojabo. Look where he lands his punch it's like on the shoulder pads, that isn't where you strike. That's not good hand placement. Hutchinson long arms him so striking higher makes more sense in that context, but you see that high strike ends up with Duncans hands on Hutchinson's back arm pit showing the ref hold. That's not good. You go in on the chest and if you hold there it's called less. These high inaccurate strikes are setting up for the NFL's counter moves especially when he gets his torso up over his toes aiming so high. Hutchinson doesn't counter inside in that play because his role is mirrored on the other side you can see the wide guys are on contain and allowing the linebackers to shoot the clear gaps to wreck the RPO.  The third play he gives up first contact which is the main benefit of all that length, and ends up grabbing the back of Hutchinson's jersey. The technique isn't there. He needs to play lower and less lunging (although the lunge isn't as bad as many play) strike closer to the numbers inside the chest plate and coordinate hands and feet movement (you can see he sets feet and Hutch counters back in after being run around the arch, and Duncan is diagonal when he yanks Hutchinson down. That's not an ideal body placement and it's probably leading to penalties in the league. He has athleticism and hand strength, and some tools.

[CWood21]

On 1/14/2023 at 12:20 PM, Trojan said:

He has athleticism and size, but he lacks technique in a big way. He looks way more like a 5th or 6th round long shot that could latch on to a starting job if he takes to coaching and has opportunity. More like Braxton Jones with the Bears imo. Christian Darrisaw was a blue chip prospect that had a core injury.

I can guarantee you that if an OL has athleticism and size, he's not lasting to Day 3.

[Crimmage]

Isn't Duncan going to be at the Senior Bowl? If so, the 1 on 1's will probably guarantee he is a top 100 pick ( assuming he has does as well as I expect).   

 

Darnell Wright is another guy I've seen projected to go anywhere from the 2nd-5th depending on the person. Pretty sure he will be at the Senior Bowl too, which pushes him up into the top 3 rounds. 

[Sugashane]

On 1/12/2023 at 12:16 PM, armsteeld said:

I'm in the minority but I want RT Darnell Wright playing Guard. Reminds me of former Steelers Ramon Foster.

Wright would be an upgrade for the Bears at RT but in my last mock I doubled down for Dawand Jones and Wright. Wright moved into LG for us.

I'm usually a HUGE advocate of drafting OTs and filling the OL with them. I'm not exclusively drafting OTs, got Trey Smith before KC did, but its a pretty safe general rule for me too.

[armsteeld]

18 hours ago, Trojan said:

In that video if you mute the guy and just watch the clips he posted. Duncan is against Ojabo. Look where he lands his punch it's like on the shoulder pads, that isn't where you strike. That's not good hand placement. Hutchinson long arms him so striking higher makes more sense in that context, but you see that high strike ends up with Duncans hands on Hutchinson's back arm pit showing the ref hold. That's not good. You go in on the chest and if you hold there it's called less. These high inaccurate strikes are setting up for the NFL's counter moves especially when he gets his torso up over his toes aiming so high. Hutchinson doesn't counter inside in that play because his role is mirrored on the other side you can see the wide guys are on contain and allowing the linebackers to shoot the clear gaps to wreck the RPO.  The third play he gives up first contact which is the main benefit of all that length, and ends up grabbing the back of Hutchinson's jersey. The technique isn't there. He needs to play lower and less lunging (although the lunge isn't as bad as many play) strike closer to the numbers inside the chest plate and coordinate hands and feet movement (you can see he sets feet and Hutch counters back in after being run around the arch, and Duncan is diagonal when he yanks Hutchinson down. That's not an ideal body placement and it's probably leading to penalties in the league. He has athleticism and hand strength, and some tools.

I see the same thing with Broderick Jones. Yes he's athletic and can bury a smaller defender at the 2nd and 3rd level. His hand placement body mechanics in the passing game don't impress me.

[Ozzy]

15 minutes ago, armsteeld said:

I see the same thing with Broderick Jones. Yes he's athletic and can bury a smaller defender at the 2nd and 3rd level. His hand placement body mechanics in the passing game don't impress me.

The dude allowed zero sacks this past season as a RS SOPH.  Sure he has work to do but his upside is higher than any OT in the draft.  Sure he could fall out of the top 15 or so but would be a steal in the late 1st round.  

[armsteeld]

9 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

The dude allowed zero sacks this past season as a RS SOPH.  Sure he has work to do but his upside is higher than any OT in the draft.  Sure he could fall out of the top 15 or so but would be a steal in the late 1st round.  

Sacks allowed shouldn't be the standard for drafting an OL in college. His issues easily stand out during pass protection. If Stetson was so mobile, Jones would have been beat multiple times. More to factor with OL besides the "0 sacks given up" talk.

[Ozzy]

4 minutes ago, armsteeld said:

Sacks allowed shouldn't be the standard for drafting an OL in college. His issues easily stand out during pass protection. If Stetson was so mobile, Jones would have been beat multiple times. More to factor with OL besides the "0 sacks given up" talk.

Sure but the guy is as talented as any OT in the draft and is probably the best LT out there in the draft arguably.  If it was 2024 it would not even be a question him being a top 10 pick because he would have another year of development.  But again in a some what weak LT class he is right up there with any.  

 

Yes sacks allowed is not everything especially if one is talking just one year but that is like saying it is not crazy impressive for Jarrett Patterson to allow zero sacks in four years of playing major college football.  To me that is wildly impressive and something to be noted.  

 

Any OT is helped by athletic QBs getting away from pressure, that even happens in the NFL.