Season over?

[SimbaWho]

Still alive boys, just have to win out!

Boy, Our GM goes from great to flop all in a season.

Head coach isn't good either but what's it really matter at this point honestly. Who's better and available that you're ready to replace him with?

[theuntouchable]

2 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I feel the same way, and I'm a fan of what Quinn has done so far.  I don't even really love Caldwell.  I just think that blaming everything on him is ridiculous, especially when your team *was competing for a playoff spot.

I don’t blame him for everything I just don’t think he’s a top tier coach at all

[theuntouchable]

2 hours ago, SimbaWho said:

Still alive boys, just have to win out!

Boy, Our GM goes from great to flop all in a season.

Head coach isn't good either but what's it really matter at this point honestly. Who's better and available that you're ready to replace him with?

That’s the only thing stopping me from saying get rid of him right now. I don’t really see a replacement out there that I feel would be an obvious upgrade.

[khaosoy]

4 hours ago, theuntouchable said:

That’s the only thing stopping me from saying get rid of him right now. I don’t really see a replacement out there that I feel would be an obvious upgrade.

Agreed. Talent in the coaching ranks is way down. This is why guys like Caldwell continue to get jobs. He isn't great, not even very good but he isn't completely incompetent and will field a moderately competitive team. He just doesn't have the ability to take a team to the next level. Unfortunately, finding a guy that can ends up being a crap shoot so do you stick with a guy who will at least keep you semi-competitive (for now) or keep trying until you find the next genius? I generally say the latter especially if you have a great QB. 

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

6 hours ago, khaosoy said:

Agreed. Talent in the coaching ranks is way down. This is why guys like Caldwell continue to get jobs. He isn't great, not even very good but he isn't completely incompetent and will field a moderately competitive team. He just doesn't have the ability to take a team to the next level. Unfortunately, finding a guy that can ends up being a crap shoot so do you stick with a guy who will at least keep you semi-competitive (for now) or keep trying until you find the next genius? I generally say the latter especially if you have a great QB. 

If this team had a running game, they'd be a competitive playoff team.  At some point, it's less about Caldwell and more about the players on the roster.

[Superduperman]

13 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

If this team had a running game, they'd be a competitive playoff team.  At some point, it's less about Caldwell and more about the players on the roster.

And whose job is it to get the team a running game? Mayhew and Quinn have drafted and signed linemen. The linemen Quinn signed came from winning teams who can run the ball. The guys those guys replaced (Reiff, Warford) went to teams who are now winning and running the ball.

Don't tell me it's RB's, either, though ours are not good. Minnesota lost their rookie RB and are now running with Latavius Murray, who looked like a corpse last year in Oakland, and Jerick McKinnon. And Riley Reiff at LT.

Caldwell is Lionized. In the week before this game someone asked him how he defines and elite quarterback and he stuttered his way through trying to find a proper, cliched, say-nothing answer before giving up and blaming the reporter for asking. Then he comes out in the game and doesn't notice his defense has NINE MEN ON THE FIELD for a third-and-long in the fourth quarter and the Lions down by 7 in a game they had to have to stay hear the playoffs.

The Lions problems are not all about him, but if you think this week doesn't show beyond a doubt that Caldwell's window is closed, you have forgotten or chosen to ignore history. You have forgotten Darryl Rogers staring up into the Silverdome roof, or Bobby Ross making submarine noises, or Rod Marinelli calling the media a "room of stink" as though it wasn't his team that stunk.

Caldwell should be fired today. Every day he stays, just like with those other guys, is another message that the Lions accept a lower standard, that personality and politeness is ahead of winning.

[Millenhater]

13 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

If this team had a running game, they'd be a competitive playoff team.  At some point, it's less about Caldwell and more about the players on the roster.

Yes talent is lacking. But the play calling and the coaching is not very good. It's a combination of those factors. 

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

1 hour ago, Superduperman said:

And whose job is it to get the team a running game? Mayhew and Quinn have drafted and signed linemen. The linemen Quinn signed came from winning teams who can run the ball. The guys those guys replaced (Reiff, Warford) went to teams who are now winning and running the ball.

Don't tell me it's RB's, either, though ours are not good. Minnesota lost their rookie RB and are now running with Latavius Murray, who looked like a corpse last year in Oakland, and Jerick McKinnon. And Riley Reiff at LT.

Caldwell is Lionized. In the week before this game someone asked him how he defines and elite quarterback and he stuttered his way through trying to find a proper, cliched, say-nothing answer before giving up and blaming the reporter for asking. Then he comes out in the game and doesn't notice his defense has NINE MEN ON THE FIELD for a third-and-long in the fourth quarter and the Lions down by 7 in a game they had to have to stay hear the playoffs.

The Lions problems are not all about him, but if you think this week doesn't show beyond a doubt that Caldwell's window is closed, you have forgotten or chosen to ignore history. You have forgotten Darryl Rogers staring up into the Silverdome roof, or Bobby Ross making submarine noises, or Rod Marinelli calling the media a "room of stink" as though it wasn't his team that stunk.

Caldwell should be fired today. Every day he stays, just like with those other guys, is another message that the Lions accept a lower standard, that personality and politeness is ahead of winning.

I don't agree.

[Rockcity2]

On 12/3/2017 at 7:58 PM, theuntouchable said:

That’s the only thing stopping me from saying get rid of him right now. I don’t really see a replacement out there that I feel would be an obvious upgrade.

I see plenty of guys I'd rather give a shot.

Obvious upgrade from What? Average?

Is this the standard bc we finally made the playoffs.. should be we gots a qb

[khaosoy]

On 12/4/2017 at 7:27 PM, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

If this team had a running game, they'd be a competitive playoff team.  At some point, it's less about Caldwell and more about the players on the roster.

They've had plenty of OL talent since Caldwell has been brought on board. At some point you have to look at a HC and decide if he is capable of developing said talent. You can't keep relying on the team drafting immediate superstars in order for it to become a playoff contender. Skilled RBs are not hard to find but getting an OL to gel takes coaching. How many offensive players have become better since joining the team and since Caldwell has been the coach? How many high draft picks has the team invested on the offensive side of the ball? 

[Rockcity2]

1 hour ago, khaosoy said:

They've had plenty of OL talent since Caldwell has been brought on board. At some point you have to look at a HC and decide if he is capable of developing said talent. You can't keep relying on the team drafting immediate superstars in order for it to become a playoff contender. Skilled RBs are not hard to find but getting an OL to gel takes coaching. How many offensive players have become better since joining the team and since Caldwell has been the coach? How many high draft picks has the team invested on the offensive side of the ball? 

Well said

Everywhere Caldwell goes it seems he kills there run game

I mean if we are gonna suck this bad don't even flippn bother running it at all.. put 5 wrs out there

[flyguy1609]

its not all coaching but the beg of the 2nd half vs the ravens we came out no huddle and 3 mins into the 3rd we scored a td. idk why we don't run that more, not sure why ZZ isn't used more, I think for this upcoming draft we need pass-rushers and DL after Ngata was lost for the season(week5-6 if I remember correctly) our rush Def has gone down the tubes. maybe go after a Malcolm buter type CB to pair up with Slay.

 

I mean were not totally out of the playoffs now but damn near close.. have to play like its lose and were done...

 

question(sorry to go all over the place) but with our running game the way it is. back in the draft we had a chance to draft Kareem Hunt but we got Golladay with a trade down... revisit that day would you rather have Hunt or Golladay????

[Superduperman]

13 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I don't agree.

I notice you have no actual reasoning for this disagreement

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

1 hour ago, Superduperman said:

I notice you have no actual reasoning for this disagreement

Of course there's reasoning.  It's just common sense what that reasoning is.

I don't agree that Caldwell should be fired today, or tomorrow, or during this season.

I don't agree that our RBs are not the issue.

I don't agree that our acquired OLinemen, Lang and Wagner, are strong run-blockers.  (Which you implied, but didn't state.)

I don't agree that Quinn/Mayhew have done enough to give this team a strong running game.

And I definitely don't agree that Caldwell has been Lionized.  He has always been this way.

[diehardlionfan]

I am not in favour of coaching changes in season. It simply doesn’t make sense.

Following each season the GM should evaluate everyone in the organization and anyone failing to make the grade should be replaced. 

While we see on field product we have no knowledge of behind the scenes discussions between Quinn and the coaches. It’s quite likely the staff knew this team would have trouble running the ball and if that’s the case you can’t hold the coaches accountable.

As for players, Quinn has his plan and I don’t think it’s fair to be alarmist this early in his tenure. I’m not satisfied with the on field product but I can see the shape of his team.

This is a critical stretch. It will reveal what the team is made of and the upcoming off season an opportunity for Quinn to continue to revamp the roster. 

I must admit my frustration levels are high this year. Wearing my realism hat I felt the Lions would be an 8-8 team but my fan hat wants a Super Bowl. 

The Lions need a DT that can collapse the pocket and a DE that can pressure the QB. If they don’t retain Ngata then 2 DT. I hope they keep him. I think we all realize how effective he is against the run. The ability to apply pressure and get to the QB would make a world of difference for this defence. My real concern is Ansah. He’s never 100% and he’s ineffective when less than full health. He started so strong but simply hasn’t impacted the games. It may be better to let him go but it’s a gamble. It really depends on Quinn’s ability to find DE’s that can get after the passer. I would be interested in what others think about him.

On offence the team is squandering Stafford. There’s lots of arguments about the QB but he has certainly proved to me he has the ability and leadership qualities to QB the Lions. At WR Tate and MJ are keepers and Golladay has looked very good. Ebron who has been horrid with drops has quietly turned it around and he’s not only held the ball but made some tough catches. He’s playing really well. The offence generally scores enough points as is, so the biggest bang for the buck, in my view is improving line play. Line play to protect Stafford and lineplay to improve the run. We can all remember teams that could plug in any RB simply because the line was so good. That said if the have an opportunity to get a top back I would be inclined to suggest they do it.

Protecting your QB and getting after the opponents QB are keys to success yet these are the two biggest areas of concern on this team. 

FIX the LINES and so many other areas improve by association.

When I was a kid the Lions Dline was ferocious. They had the makings of a good line recently but they let all the effective players leave without finding replacements that could provide similar levels of play.

Fix the lines. Please fix the lines. I’m getting older and I would sure like to see a playoff victory.