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2023 Draft Prospects (Google Sheets) - New 2024 QB Worksheet


Karnage84

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9 hours ago, General Tso said:

Jack Campbell is an animal. Why is he only projected in the 2nd round?

I think his athleticism is probably a touch below what some people would like to see but I agree - he's a monster. 

I broke out our LB splits to get an idea of how we're using our LB's and then try to match up players that played similar splits. It's one thing if you have seen it on film and it's another to project "I think he can do this". 

Anzalone played over 1,000 (1076) snaps for us. Rodrigo and Barnes combined played 957 (611 and 346 respectively). 

Anzalone - RDEF - 417 snaps; Pass Rush - 90; COV - 569

Rodrigo - RDEF - 278; Pass Rush - 56; COV - 277

Barnes - RDEF - 153; Pass Rush - 29; COV 164

 

Chris Board had menial snaps outside of Coverage (102)

 

Anzalone played at ILB on 617 snaps and LB 224 snaps. He played OLB (on the line) on 46 snaps and never split out at end (LEO/REO). This is a 57.3% ILB to 20.8% LB split. 

So I tried to identify guys that played similar splits, just to try and help narrow the field. 

NAME (ILB/LB)

  • Drew Sanders, Arkansas (61.2%/18.2%)
  • Jack Campbell, Iowa (51.2%;24.7%)
  • Mikel Jones, Syracuse (58.3%/20.4%)
  • Troy Brown, Ole Miss (51.9%;25.5%)
  • Mohamoud Diabate, Utah (48.6%/25.6%)
  • Aubrey Miller, Jackson State (54%/23.8%)
  • Shaka Heyward, Duke (55.8%/24.9%)
  • Cam Jones, Indiana (55.9%;21.7%)
  • Anfernee Orji, Vanderbilt (51.6%/22.2%)
  • Bumper Pool, Arkansas (54%/31.2%)

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Do you have the same thing for the last few years?  Would be interesting to share it and see how well these numbers have translated to NFL success.  That would help in determining which skills seem to carry over more than others and how much level of competition matter.  I feel like the run defense would be one of the skills easiest to translate as it involves being in the right spot and reading plays more than anything but I could be wrong. 

I have a worksheet with combine results with a couple thousand players. I've only really recently started digging in and using PFF's college information to help things out. 

The beauty thing I figured out maybe two weeks ago - you can get the PFF information for NFL guys under the college section. So I can see all of Aidan Hutchinson's stats or (more importantly to me), Rodrigo, Barnes, Kerby, Houston, etc. and see what kind of stuff pops out and what Holmes/Campbell might have seen in that player. 

Another note, just like you said before @Sllim Pickens- it's interesting how some of the scouting reports and PFF contradict each other. Jack Campbell.. perfect example. Scouting report says he's best in Zone and he struggles in Man. He's above average in Man (69.0) while elite in Zone (92.2). The kid from Utah has a 35 score in Zone. That's what I consider to be "struggle". Trenton Simpson, who is an athletic freak is only a 55.9 in Man, 70.8 in Zone and is 30 points behind Campbell in a Coverage grade. Dude seems really instinctive and that's definitely a way to make up for things. 

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2 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

I have a worksheet with combine results with a couple thousand players. I've only really recently started digging in and using PFF's college information to help things out. 

The beauty thing I figured out maybe two weeks ago - you can get the PFF information for NFL guys under the college section. So I can see all of Aidan Hutchinson's stats or (more importantly to me), Rodrigo, Barnes, Kerby, Houston, etc. and see what kind of stuff pops out and what Holmes/Campbell might have seen in that player. 

Another note, just like you said before @Sllim Pickens- it's interesting how some of the scouting reports and PFF contradict each other. Jack Campbell.. perfect example. Scouting report says he's best in Zone and he struggles in Man. He's above average in Man (69.0) while elite in Zone (92.2). The kid from Utah has a 35 score in Zone. That's what I consider to be "struggle". Trenton Simpson, who is an athletic freak is only a 55.9 in Man, 70.8 in Zone and is 30 points behind Campbell in a Coverage grade. Dude seems really instinctive and that's definitely a way to make up for things. 

I would rather have a smart player than an athletic player, in a bubble with the smart player being athletic, just not elite combine numbers.  The athletes get people excited, the smart and instinctual guys get results.  I was never sold on the Simpson bandwagon and am all the way off at this point. 

Side note, in looking at the DTs, I need to follow up on Karl Brooks some.  He is 300 lbs but has played only about 10% of snaps at DT?  And over 300 at OLB?  That is nuts. 

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1 hour ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I would rather have a smart player than an athletic player, in a bubble with the smart player being athletic, just not elite combine numbers.  The athletes get people excited, the smart and instinctual guys get results.  I was never sold on the Simpson bandwagon and am all the way off at this point. 

Side note, in looking at the DTs, I need to follow up on Karl Brooks some.  He is 300 lbs but has played only about 10% of snaps at DT?  And over 300 at OLB?  That is nuts. 

I feel the same way. I'll take smart and gritty any day over an athletic freak. Those athletic freaks, imo, get used to just being able to beat everyone with just their athleticism. Then they get to the NFL and that goes all out the window. Smart, gritty, and reasonably athletic...now you're talking my love language.

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3 minutes ago, LionArkie said:

I feel the same way. I'll take smart and gritty any day over an athletic freak. Those athletic freaks, imo, get used to just being able to beat everyone with just their athleticism. Then they get to the NFL and that goes all out the window. Smart, gritty, and reasonably athletic...now you're talking my love language.

Yup, within reason of course.  You hope to find the ones who are both, but if you have guys graded closely, I would lean towards the smarter/instinctual player and hard worker than the raw kid who gets by being the best athlete on the field. 

I saw a video recently of Luke Kuechly and they talked about he knew about 70% of the plays before they were ran, which showed up in his stats.  Also others were better around him as he yelled plays and got them in position pre snap.  He ran a 4.58 at the combine which is fast but not elite by any means and had solid vertical and broad jumps but he put in the work and made everyone around him better with his head.  

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2 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I would rather have a smart player than an athletic player, in a bubble with the smart player being athletic, just not elite combine numbers.  The athletes get people excited, the smart and instinctual guys get results.  I was never sold on the Simpson bandwagon and am all the way off at this point. 

Side note, in looking at the DTs, I need to follow up on Karl Brooks some.  He is 300 lbs but has played only about 10% of snaps at DT?  And over 300 at OLB?  That is nuts. 

I also think that the Lions should fill that athletic role with a hybrid S/LB that would be playing SCB/SS/Nickel LB as opposed to trying to force one of our LB's to be "that guy". Especially if they're replacing Anzalone. 

The Lions defense played 1,076 snaps. Alex Anzalone played on 100% of those snaps. ( Rodrigo played 57% and Barnes played 32%.) 

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12 hours ago, General Tso said:

Jack Campbell is an animal. Why is he only projected in the 2nd round?

PFN: #88

PFF: #73.3

Consensus Big Board: #68

TDN: #106

Walter Football: Not in their top 75

The Draft Countdown: 57

CBS: Not listed in top 150

Probably the best report so far:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10048323-jack-campbell-nfl-draft-2023-scouting-report-for-iowa-lb

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30 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

I also think that the Lions should fill that athletic role with a hybrid S/LB that would be playing SCB/SS/Nickel LB as opposed to trying to force one of our LB's to be "that guy". Especially if they're replacing Anzalone. 

The Lions defense played 1,076 snaps. Alex Anzalone played on 100% of those snaps. ( Rodrigo played 57% and Barnes played 32%.) 

How much was Anzalone in coverage and the splits between man vs zone?  Also his ratings in those areas?  He seemed to be out of position a lot in coverage, but maybe that's my bias towards him thinking that. 

Also I should probably just pay for PFF but will milk this if your willing, lol.  

And I am ok with a S/LB hybrid if there is someone good enough in both areas.  We need someone big enough to shed blocks and be effective in the run game at LB more than most S's are for every down play.  And most of those guys who are either small LB's or bigger S's are more that jack of all trades who are a master of nothing.  I know he hasn't panned out in the pro's yet but thats why I was higher on JoJo Doman last year since he was great in coverage but big enough to handle blocks and play around the line.  This year I like Antonio Johnson since he does both and based on the numbers you pulled, Kaveon Merriweather could be a riser in the process and is a little bigger.  At LB it looks like Dorian Williams is more in the mold but a little bigger but excels in zone coverage but will depend on speed for guys like him and Campbell on if they will be able to cover NFL TE's and keep up and react in zones with NFL WRs.  

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33 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

How much was Anzalone in coverage and the splits between man vs zone?  Also his ratings in those areas?  He seemed to be out of position a lot in coverage, but maybe that's my bias towards him thinking that. 

Also I should probably just pay for PFF but will milk this if your willing, lol.  

And I am ok with a S/LB hybrid if there is someone good enough in both areas.  We need someone big enough to shed blocks and be effective in the run game at LB more than most S's are for every down play.  And most of those guys who are either small LB's or bigger S's are more that jack of all trades who are a master of nothing.  I know he hasn't panned out in the pro's yet but thats why I was higher on JoJo Doman last year since he was great in coverage but big enough to handle blocks and play around the line.  This year I like Antonio Johnson since he does both and based on the numbers you pulled, Kaveon Merriweather could be a riser in the process and is a little bigger.  At LB it looks like Dorian Williams is more in the mold but a little bigger but excels in zone coverage but will depend on speed for guys like him and Campbell on if they will be able to cover NFL TE's and keep up and react in zones with NFL WRs.  

Anzalone

80.8 Man (178 coverage snaps)/259 pass snaps; 50% completion rate (4/8 targets); 26 yards given up (6.5 ypc); 3 Forced Incompletions (38% FI); 1 PBU; 0 INT; 0 TD given up; 57.3 NFL passer rating; 0 Dropped Interception

Zone - 38.0 (300 coverage snaps/313 pass snaps); 92% completion (23/25); 161 yards given up (12.0 ypc); 0 FI; 0 PBU; 0 INT; 1 DRI; 112.7 NFL Passer Rating

Rodriguez

90.4 Man (71/113); 50% completion (3/6); -2 yards; NFL passer rating 56.3

44.5 Zone (154/168); 86.4% completion (19/22); 209 yards allowed (11.0 ypc); 1 FI; 1 PBU; 0 INT; 0 TD; 106.3 NFL passer rating

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Just now, Karnage84 said:

Anzalone

80.8 Man (178 coverage snaps)/259 pass snaps; 50% completion rate (4/8 targets); 26 yards given up (6.5 ypc); 3 Forced Incompletions (38% FI); 1 PBU; 0 INT; 0 TD given up; 57.3 NFL passer rating; 0 Dropped Interception

Zone - 38.0 (300 coverage snaps/313 pass snaps); 92% completion (23/25); 161 yards given up (12.0 ypc); 0 FI; 0 PBU; 0 INT; 1 DRI; 112.7 NFL Passer Rating

Rodriguez

90.4 Man (71/113); 50% completion (3/6); -2 yards; NFL passer rating 56.3

44.5 Zone (154/168); 86.4% completion (19/22); 209 yards allowed (11.0 ypc); 1 FI; 1 PBU; 0 INT; 0 TD; 106.3 NFL passer rating

Basically, both of our LB's were great in man and awful in zone. 

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Rodrigo @ Oklahoma State

Man - 69.8 PFF Score 141/212; 80% rec (4/5); 24 yards (6.0 ypc); 1 FI; 0 PBU; 0 INT; 0 DRI; 0 TD; 86.7 NFL

Zone - 68.3 PFF Score 226/237; 72.7% rec (24/33); 163 yards (6.8 ypc); 2 FI; 2 PBU; 0 INT; 1 DRI; 83.3 NFL

Derrick Barnes @ Purdue

Man - 85.6 PFF score 22/46; 50% rec (1/2); 0 yards (0.0 ypc); 1 FI; 1 PBU; 0 INT; 0 DRI; 0 TD; 56.3 NFL

Zone - 41.5 PFF Score 112/129; 71.4% rec (10/14); 90 yards (9.0 ypc); 1 FI; 1 PBU; 1 INT; 0 DRI; 0 TD; 58.6 NFL

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5 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

NAME (ILB/LB)

  • Drew Sanders, Arkansas (61.2%/18.2%)
  • Jack Campbell, Iowa (51.2%;24.7%)
  • Mikel Jones, Syracuse (58.3%/20.4%)
  • Troy Brown, Ole Miss (51.9%;25.5%)
  • Mohamoud Diabate, Utah (48.6%/25.6%)
  • Aubrey Miller, Jackson State (54%/23.8%)
  • Shaka Heyward, Duke (55.8%/24.9%)
  • Cam Jones, Indiana (55.9%;21.7%)
  • Anfernee Orji, Vanderbilt (51.6%/22.2%)
  • Bumper Pool, Arkansas (54%/31.2%)

I am also adding in Ryan Smenda Jr, Wake Forest (53.8%/26%)

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2 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

Basically, both of our LB's were great in man and awful in zone. 

This is interesting.  I am assuming they thought Rodrigo would be better in zone based on college but seems odd to run a zone coverage so often with such bad results.  Why not switch up players, draft a little different, or scheme different?  Given the solid coverage in man, they were not targeted much which makes sense, but it does leave things open for the QB to scramble if the LBs turn their backs at all.  So it seems like we should find some guys who excel at zone coverage since we run that 60% of the time but sure doesn't seem to look that way on paper.  Anzelone is likely coming back per Holmes but his zone numbers sure do seem to match what I saw during games but guess I didnt pay attention to him in man given they didnt target him.   

This makes me want guys like Campbell, Dorian Williams and Sir Dennis.  All three are solid in man but really good in zone coverage. 

Interesting too that Campbell lined up as SCB 89 times so a high zone score from SCB is big.  Overshown, Drake Thomas and Jalen Graham did a lot as well with Graham at 192 as a SCB.  Graham is that smaller LB/S hybrid but in general doesnt have great scores in coverage but has experience there. 

Overall will be interesting to see how the combine plays out and how some of these guys move up and down.  

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47 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

This is interesting.  I am assuming they thought Rodrigo would be better in zone based on college but seems odd to run a zone coverage so often with such bad results.  Why not switch up players, draft a little different, or scheme different?  Given the solid coverage in man, they were not targeted much which makes sense, but it does leave things open for the QB to scramble if the LBs turn their backs at all.  So it seems like we should find some guys who excel at zone coverage since we run that 60% of the time but sure doesn't seem to look that way on paper.  Anzelone is likely coming back per Holmes but his zone numbers sure do seem to match what I saw during games but guess I didnt pay attention to him in man given they didnt target him.   

This makes me want guys like Campbell, Dorian Williams and Sir Dennis.  All three are solid in man but really good in zone coverage. 

Interesting too that Campbell lined up as SCB 89 times so a high zone score from SCB is big.  Overshown, Drake Thomas and Jalen Graham did a lot as well with Graham at 192 as a SCB.  Graham is that smaller LB/S hybrid but in general doesnt have great scores in coverage but has experience there. 

Overall will be interesting to see how the combine plays out and how some of these guys move up and down.  

This is another reason why I would really want to target Campbell - 90+ in zone while he's still decent enough in man. We're running 313 snaps in zone vs 259 (with 178 of those being in coverage) in man. 

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