DoleINGout Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, m haynes said: Dugger He will be a 27 yr old box safety next year who is nothing special in coverage which is the major part of today's game. He's over all a good player. IMO this is a big need in the draft. The age is a big factor along with Philips. IMO I would sign him to a good contract but not break the bank. I think he will cost to much however i think BB will sign him. and over pay. EX, I look at this on a smaller scale. Let's Seymour go, shouldn't he do the same here with Dugger. Yes the money different but circumstance are the same. ADDED There is no way I'm comparing him talent wise to Big C. Dugger would be crazy not to go to the highest bidder and look for big bucks. He's yet to make any money for his future. 100% on the mark with my thoughts on Dugger. All of that post I co-sign. Edited January 25, 2023 by DoleINGout 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m haynes Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said: . Dugger is crucial, Why? He very good player however he has faults. His age is a big thing, he's basically a LB, hits add up. He has to be asking for at least 14 million. See list https://www.profootballnetwork.com/highest-paid-safeties-in-nfl/ This draft is loaded with replacements who would be much cheaper. Also 2023 is a building year. To make the playoffs is the goal. This is the year IMO to take care of the DB/S, build with the youth you have. You get two DB/S in this draft it give you four young "in your shirts" players. Heck of a future going forward. NFL is pass happy. There are, 8 projected 1st Rd-ers 6/7 2nd RD and 10 in the 3rd. Loaded, some of the guys in the 3rd are listed by some as possible 1st RD players. I wouldn't go that far but 2nd sure. Again loaded. For me its , age and a money thing. There is no way it heck am i giving 14+ for a box safety. I have seen many places where Tre'Vius Hodges-Tomlinson is listed in the 3rd. Crazy most years he's a high 2nd RD pick, again nuts. Also what team in the AFC concern you with the running game??? The are all pass happy which is Duggers weakness. You can say the Jets with Hall but its the Jets!!! You know they will screw it up in the end. Edited January 25, 2023 by m haynes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimmage Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 3 minutes ago, m haynes said: This draft is loaded with replacements who would be much cheaper. This is an interesting point.. if you're talking box safeties, you have a few options this draft. I wouldn't say it's loaded though. If you're trying to prepare for life without Dugger, JL Skinner and Rashad Torrence come to mind. Unfortunately though, given all the other needs.. I don't think you can afford to draft a year ahead to replacing Dugger. Skinner probably goes in the 2nd and Torrence maybe the 3rd/4th. This team isn't at the point like it used to be where they could afford to draft and sit guys a year or two. Guys from the top 3 rounds need to contribute year 1. You either extend Dugger to a team friendly deal this year or let him walk next year and take the comp pick. This draft is stacked at: CB / RB / TE / C .. I am not a huge fan of the safety class. I think you go through free agency to add depth (Bring back Peppers / add Julian Love from Giants / Move Jalen Mills to FS). I lean towards drafting 2 CB and moving Mills to FS to help out the secondary. If nobody wants to trade with the Patriots at 14 CB may be the best value there.. Witherspoon / Gonzalez start day 1. Witherspoon/Jones/Jones is a pretty excited CB group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m haynes Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 16 hours ago, DoleINGout said: Nothing is a foregone conclusion though. I could see them going just about any position at 14 besides K/P/LS. Don't be so sure with the punter!!!!!!!! He not afraid to pay huge dollars for one . The guys is insane when it comes to the draft and FA !!!!!🤣🤣🤣🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m haynes Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Crimmage said: Unfortunately though, given all the other needs.. I agree 1000 percent however that goes out the window in this draft. Let say it this way. You go to a party and there's five men /woman take you choice . Four average looking and one the has it all. You are doing everything in your power to leave with that (CB) person. I go back when you explained the Pats draft formula, very good, I might add. You use that at 14, there is now way you don't take the CB. You be nuts not to. Good possibility your looking at Christian Gonzalez and Devon Witherspoon and I'm putting my guy there as well "in your shirt" Clark Phillips III. Pats board, I can't see how the LT/WR can be rated over these players, it's not even close. We are talking Sauce Gardner skills !!!! Christian Gonzalez ---- reminds me of Jason Sehorn before injuries, floats with ease. JS was a great player, to bad injuries took his career. He was like Larry Bird of (DBs) football !!!! Devon Witherspoon ----- Remind me of Jaycee Horn, it almost like watching the same player. One of my favorite in that draft. Clark Phillips III -------- Reminds me of Ty Law, plays the same, smart player that sticks to his guy like clue. IMO he right up there with man on man coverage with Gonzalez. LT Jones lucky to see the field, unless forced into action. He has hole in his game raw for the next level. After him there is no one near a 1st RD talent. WR Addison I just don't see high 1st RD talent. Great numbers but I have a major problem with who he faced at Pitt and USC. I think Flower is just as good and most say he's in the 2nd RD, which I would think is nuts. People seem to forget this guy had Pickett and Caleb Williams throwing to him. Flowers had???? That's my point. BC fan please don't tell me about the ND kid. he stinks!!! WR JSN I didn't like this guy at all. You have been raving about him so I took a closer look He will be a terrific slot WR. If we trade down 25+ could agree. taking him. Personally I would take Flowers over him, only reason, he can play both. Lets say JSN is a better slot however Flowers have the overall. game. That changes if he blows away the 40 which I don't see happening. They will both help what ever team takes them. Edited January 25, 2023 by m haynes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m haynes Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Crimmage said: I don't think you can afford to draft a year ahead to replacing Dugger. I do i go right back to your formula. Safety rated a 8 and all others 6 take the safety. Fill the need in the formula ? If so it should have very little weight. The last thing I would care about. Never pass talent for need, also look long term not just one year, the guys picked in 23 should be planned for 25 in general after 1/2 rds lucky with 3 rds. Quote Witherspoon / Gonzalez start day 1. Witherspoon/Jones/Jones is a pretty excited CB group HAP HAP HAP Happy day!!!!!!!!!!!!! 👊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimmage Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, m haynes said: WR JSN I didn't like this guy at all. You have been raving about him so I took a closer look He will be a terrific slot WR. If we trade down 25+ could agree. taking him. Personally I would take Flowers over him, only reason, he can play both. Lets say JSN is a better slot however Flowers have the overall. game. That changes if he blows away the 40 which I don't see happening. They will both help what ever team takes them. If he runs a 4.45 or faster .. he's easily a top 15 pick. If he runs a 4.5 or slower he probably falls to the 2nd. I really care about his 10 yard splits and 3 cone. If he is elite there then he's going to be the guy O'Brien wants. I think you're sleeping on Flowers a little bit. He's hyped now... imagine him at the combine. He feels like Jahan Dotson. At this point last year Dotson was a mid to late 2nd round pick.. he ended up at 16. People are talking about Flowers as a potential 1st round pick NOW.. he's 100% getting drafted top 40. I think the following guys get drafted in the top 45 picks: Johnston (1st) Addison (1st) JSN (1st) Flowers (1st) Downs (early 2nd) Hyatt (early 2nd) If you don't take a WR in the first... you shouldn't take one till the 4th: AT Perry (3rd/4th) Xavier Hutchinson (4th/5th) Charlie Jones (4th/5th) Ronnie Bell (6th/UDFA) I agree that Corner is the highest talent more than likely round 1... but imagine this scenario: Meyers is gone No OL brought in during free agency You're looking at Trent Brown at LT ( I'm fine with this) and Stueber/McDermett/Rookie at RT. You're also looking at a WR group of Thornton/Parker/Bourne .... with a day 3 rookie in the slot? Bourne in the slot? Nixon in the slot? Edited January 25, 2023 by Crimmage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m haynes Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Crimmage said: I really care about his 10 yard splits and 3 cone. I tell you now 3 cone off the charts. I say he breaks the record !!!!!! 2 hours ago, Crimmage said: I think you're sleeping on Flowers Can't be sleeping , he's one of my (two) favorites in the draft. Just behind is Hyatt. I haven't kept up with him because the crap I was reading, most thing were ridicules. 2 hours ago, Crimmage said: If you don't take a WR in the first... you shouldn't take one till the 4th: Sorry ???????????????????? DOn't understand. 2 hours ago, Crimmage said: You're looking at Trent Brown at LT ( I'm fine with this) and Stueber/McDermett/Rookie at RT. You're also looking at a WR group of Thornton/Parker/Bourne .... with a day 3 rookie in the slot? Bourne in the slot? Nixon in the slot? Yup short term that stinks however, I still take the Elite CB. Also if the idiots don't bring in a FA OL they should be fired because anyone you draft will give you little this year. Also its not BB MO to worry about filling out the OL. His theory throw any one in there and coach him up. This BB I not sold on Jones at all. He will get killed at the next level he's to raw. The only one I Might , nope CB still. is Peter Skoronski IMO there is no way he should fall to 14. BB meeting, OK we got our coaches, lets see what we got. Trent Brown ---- LT Yodny Cajuste ---- LT Conor McDermott ---- LT Isaiah Wynn ------ Don't be shocked , they sign him . No one wants him we get a ex-1st rounder on a show me deal. See how smart I am!!!!! Right Bill. Andrew Stueber --- RT Marcus Cannon --- RT Well it looks like where covered on the line. Lets look at drafting one in the 7th and sign UDFA and coach-em up boys!!!!!! Next the WR room. No need all set !!! Also WR is a waste if they don't fix the OL. The only reason he does is make the fans happy and you know that no going to happen. I go by this you need a Christmas tree or your ornaments are useless. Edited January 26, 2023 by m haynes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaPatsKid98 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimmage Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Now that Brady retired again.. I wonder how hard teams battle over JimmyG. If for some reason the Raiders don't get Jimmy.. I'm extra curious how much effort they put into trying to trade for Mac. Does Josh take the gamble and go for Richardson at 7? Or does he try to throw a bag of picks at BB to get a guy he thinks he can with with now? Going to be a really interesting QB Carousel with Brady gone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaPatsKid98 Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 21 hours ago, Crimmage said: Now that Brady retired again.. I wonder how hard teams battle over JimmyG. If for some reason the Raiders don't get Jimmy.. I'm extra curious how much effort they put into trying to trade for Mac. Does Josh take the gamble and go for Richardson at 7? Or does he try to throw a bag of picks at BB to get a guy he thinks he can with with now? Going to be a really interesting QB Carousel with Brady gone. What Josh McDaniels and company do… Davantae Adams is *still* openly campaigning for Aaron Rodgers as recently as yesterday (on twitter) Does he make a splash and pull the trigger on a QB early? Jimmy G is a realistic option we should assume. I wanna throw some other names in there… Jacoby Brissett via free agency? Not the best choice for them but the familiarity is there. Make a splash and go after Ryan Tannehill if they do chase a veteran? … throw a bag at Daniel Jones?😳 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimmage Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 51 minutes ago, DaPatsKid98 said: What Josh McDaniels and company do… Davantae Adams is *still* openly campaigning for Aaron Rodgers as recently as yesterday (on twitter) Does he make a splash and pull the trigger on a QB early? Jimmy G is a realistic option we should assume. I wanna throw some other names in there… Jacoby Brissett via free agency? Not the best choice for them but the familiarity is there. Make a splash and go after Ryan Tannehill if they do chase a veteran? … throw a bag at Daniel Jones?😳 They are in a difficult situation. They need a win now QB. You may only have 1-2 years left with Adams being elite. But they also need help on defense/OL in order to actually be able to compete. So they can't afford to spend 50M on a QB and still have money to add to the rest of the team.. but they can't really get a rookie in there and expect to compete for a super bowl within 2 years either. Do you trust JimmyG lasting a full season? I can see Aaron Rodgers, but how much will he cost? not to mention fitting him in the cap. Josh can't afford a year 2 where he doesn't make the playoffs.. so I doubt ownership would be ok with a rookie QB at 7. They are extremely limited on options.. which is why I think it's totally possible that they throw a bag at BB for Mac Jones. A situation where eve if BB wasn't planning on trading him he can't refuse it. For instance I imagine this being a realistic overpay that the Raiders could throw at BB: Raiders get Mac and this years Patriots 2nd round pick Patriots get #7, 4th round pick this year (109) and a 4th round pick next year which has a chance to increase to a 2nd round pick based on performance Raiders are currently projected to have ~20M in cap space, getting rid of Carr gives them another ~30M for a total of just under 50M. We can also assume that they get a good package for Carr... maybe a late 1st (Giants?) or a 2nd this year and another pick next year? This is assuming the league doesn't play hard ball knowing they have to trade or cut him now or get stuck with the bill. Raiders get a win now QB that Josh believes in (He doesn't know Rodgers), who is healthy (Not Jimmy), cheap enough that they can improve the defense in free agency (rookie deal), and a second round pick to help improve the OL. Aaron Rodgers is going to be hard to trade too.. a pre June1st trade is 40M in dead cap for the Packers.. no way they do that.. then does a team trading for him want to wait until after June1st to get their QB? His cap number is 30M this year so that fits into Carr's money.. but next year jumps to 40M then 60M! Getting him is going full on 2 year window imo.. and what are you giving up for him? Back to the Patriots scenario and why they may do the trade.. Patriots get #7 where they take a QB they want ( this would only work as a draft day trade for a QB the Patriots wanted to be there) and keep #14. - If CJ Stroud is there they could use 14 on JSN to get the band back together - They could reset QB and still take a LT in the first like they want - Maybe O'Brien learned from college that he wants a mobile QB.. or by some insane bit of chance Young falls because of size concerns or something - They could trade back from 14 and regain that 2nd if they really wanted to as well.. even though I would personally go all in on the QB/WR combo at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 I could see a scenario where the Raiders and Pats work out a trade involving Mac but I could also see the Raiders going after Rodgers, Daniel Jones, Brissett, or Garappolo, too. I could definitely see a scenario where the Pats try hard to use whatever assets they have to go up to the Bears and select Bryce Young #1 overall. Bold move indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimmage Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 29 minutes ago, DoleINGout said: I could definitely see a scenario where the Pats try hard to use whatever assets they have to go up to the Bears and select Bryce Young #1 overall. Bold move indeed. Oh man, I didn't even think of that. Would certainly be something if Bill O'Brien loves Young and says he's the guy. - Trade Mac to Raiders somehow getting 7 while keeping 14. Then Trade 7, and 14 for 1. I doubt that's enough but it would be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 4 minutes ago, Crimmage said: Oh man, I didn't even think of that. Would certainly be something if Bill O'Brien loves Young and says he's the guy. - Trade Mac to Raiders somehow getting 7 while keeping 14. Then Trade 7, and 14 for 1. I doubt that's enough but it would be interesting. Would take 7, 14, and a future 1st likely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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